Unpacking the Herdman Experience with Laughter

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I'd love to help you get vulnerable.

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Let's get naked.

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Hey everyone, I'm Anne.

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Welcome to the let's Get Naked podcast, where we deep dive into vulnerability.

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Today is a little bit different in that we are pretty freeform, based on our guests that are here, and we're not really going to have a set topic that we talk about.

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We are just going to have basically an hour long shit show, so we're going to dive right in Today.

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Joining me back by popular demand, is my brother Brennan and his wife Caitlin, and then they've brought down my cousin Amy from Colorado as well.

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Ta-da, yeah.

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And so we're all going to be telling stories about our childhoods.

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Growing up, difference in parenting we thought that was a pretty funny concept as far as the differences between our parents and their generation, our parenting that we did, our children and their parenting.

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So we're going to kind of dive into some of that.

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Other things that we're going to talk about are the similarities between Brennan and my and our siblings as they tie into the best Christmas pageant ever For those that have either seen the book or seen the movie or read the book.

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We kind of find some pretty funny correlations between that, and so we're going to tell some of those stories.

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Yeah, it's going to be pretty off the cuff today, so please forgive me in advance.

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Welcome to the show, you guys, thank you.

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Thank you for having me Thank you for letting us get naked with you, yeah.

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I would love for you to take those fucking costumes off, right now?

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No, don't know.

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You can say whatever you want.

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Please don't encourage him.

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We use all the words and all the things I'm wearing underwear today, so I can take it off, oh Jesus.

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Fantastic.

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So to just give everyone at home a little bit of a detail into where Amy fits in Brennan and my mom her sister is Amy's mom, and so Amy is a decade plus old.

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My mom was the oldest sister.

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Yeah.

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So she had a different perspective on our childhood, which know amy and I have gotten closer.

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Amy has gotten closer with us later in life just because I think, when we were younger, who would want to hang out with someone that's 13 years younger than you are?

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and I would say that was the least of why she didn't want to hang out with you well, and we'll, and we'll get into that as well, uh, but I absolutely adore amy.

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she's probably the funniest person I know on the planet and just is willing to say all the things, and we thought that would be fun to have her on, so no pressure.

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You'll probably regret that.

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Regret that exactly, but she does.

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She has a fun perspective on Brennan and my upbringing and with the rest of our siblings, and when we get together and start telling stories it's outrageous, it's just absolutely outrageous.

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So, barbara, I'm going to kick it over to you.

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Maybe you can tell me where you think this would be fun to start for some of the, some of the context for things, so that people that don't know us are listening.

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For our listeners at home, I call Caitlin Barbara Walters because she's so good at the questions and always remembering who's in what order, birth wise, and every time we get together we always have to do a little bit of a recap on where were you and where was this and who's older and whatever, and Caitlin always remembers.

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So I call her Barbara, oh, I love.

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Um.

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I did not know who the Herdmans were when.

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When I fell into this trap and recently, uh, ann bought us the book and sent it home, cause we have four children, there were five of them, um, so we're a little less crazy thankfully because we don't have Brennan, um, but the Herdmans were the worst children in the history of the earth.

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That's one of the very first lines of the book, if not the first line and they were just these ragtag, dirty, poor, rotten children that just pretty much ruined everything.

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And then they end up going to church because they heard there were snacks.

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They take over the Christmas pageant by threatening all the other people, and the story behind it is pretty awesome.

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So when we read the story, it was fun.

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It was in the movie, it was in the theaters.

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This past Christmas we went and saw it a few times and, as we've talked about as adults, anne has then realized that they were most likely the Herdmans.

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So it's been really fun to then tie that all together If we had both of them on that, I would say yes, amy.

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So it's been really fun to then tie that all together.

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If we had voted on that, I would say yes, amy's definitely one of the main sources that confirmed it for me, because I obviously didn't have a seat at that table then, because you would have bullied me, all of you, but Amy was front row for all of it.

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That I was yes, yes, yes.

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Amy used to babysit us as children, and so some of the stories that she has told we were feral, I mean, and as I've started to open Pandora's box with my memory and things are coming out.

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I'm like, oh my God, we were the Herdmans.

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I mean we just if you think about our upbringing.

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I know you don't remember South Dakota, brennan, but we grew up on a farm that had lots of acreage and space in between.

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We were seven miles away from town and feral, just feral children.

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And so then when we moved to Denver, I was nine and my mom's two sisters lived in Denver, so that would have been Amy's mom, and then also another aunt, and I remember stories about them.

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There was one time where we went to church with.

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It was like Sunday mass or Christmas mass or something, and I can't even imagine what your, your mom and aunt Janice would have been thinking.

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But we got home and they had called to say like thanks for coming to church or whatever, and it was on a three-way call and they hung up or like thought they hung up and they were literally just bashing.

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And this is on the answering machine right, and this is on the answering machine back when you know for those that are not old enough to even realize what the hell that is we used to have boxes that were plugged into the wall that you'd have to call and leave a message for someone, and so they were literally talking about what terrible children we were and how misbehaved we were.

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And I thought I picked up the phone and I called them back.

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I called Aunt Janice back and she's like well, let me get Aunt Janelle on the phone and I, like I do, I remember like tearing into her because I was defending my mom, and I look back at that and I think if I were a parent, looking at what we brought to the table, I would have been with everything and we were not allowed to like we couldn't have a mess.

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Everything had a place.

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I remember dusting and my mom would come along and say that goes like this.

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I'm like, oh well, that's changing the world, just like that.

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Very sterile and in our upbringing.

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And then these guys came along and I'm like just standing there looking at like dust would literally fly when you guys would come into the town and it was like, oh God, here they come.

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And I was tasked with taking care of these kids and was told keep those kids quiet.

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And I'm like, well, okay, there's gasoline out in the shed.

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I don't know what else we could do.

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So the memories I have of just trying to keep everybody quiet and not bring dirt in the house.

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I remember my mom put food out on the patio because your parents were late and just stood there behind the curtain and then she took to her sickbed and I'm like, well, now I have to clean that up.

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It was just like a constant state of, and it would go on all day.

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I felt like you guys got there at like 6.15 in the morning and you didn't leave until like 9.30 at night and I was like, my God, I haven't even peed all day.

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And I have a question.

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Yes, you've referred to your mother's sickbed multiple times today.

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Oh yeah, your mother's sickbed.

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Yeah, what does that mean?

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That's what I wanted to know Like did she have a different bedroom than her sickbed?

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No that was her bedroom but I, like she didn't, everything was I can't take it.

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I can't.

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I just can't do this right now.

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And you know, my sister was always gone, my brother was doing whatever and there I was.

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I tried to be quiet and not cause problems.

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I loved being by myself.

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And then, you know, these guys would pull in and it was just feral, feral children, feral Like with just Nancy?

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was it feral?

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Yes, and did the ferality increase as the children increased.

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I remember when Nancy cut her bangs off who did?

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And Nancy cut the widow's peak out of her head.

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And I'm looking at this you know she has a wound, which we all know.

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I love wounds.

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But I'm looking at like, where did she get the scissors?

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I don't know.

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I think they're my sewing scissors and I'm like the viscars with the.

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You know, what else did she cut?

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And then I think Maureen did it too.

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I'm like, well, you didn't learn the first time?

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I'm not allowed to touch the scissors.

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Why is she touching the scissors?

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And I was like, please don't go into my mom's sewing room because I'll die.

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That's too much to clean up.

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Yeah, so there was a lot there was just a lot of angst.

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Well, and once you realize, once you realize, like for me when I realized a couple of years ago, and it was almost like a slap in the face of like holy shit, we were the Herdmans and and growing up we would read that book every year for christmas and we would laugh, and we would laugh, and we would laugh.

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I had no fucking idea that that was us right that that was us.

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But when you, when you look at that, when you look at holy shit, and then you think about the different people that you interacted with, because, like aunt mary and uncle pat, you know all of the different people that you interacted with, because, like Aunt Mary and Uncle Pat, you know all of the different people that we went around to look, you start putting together some pieces that maybe you didn't realize when you were a child, that you realize as an adult, and Farrell doesn't begin to even describe it.

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You know, I mean, I just I don't even know what to say.

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Well, I think a lot of that too is like where we grew up was.

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You know, I don't even know what to say.

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Well, I think a lot of that too is like where we grew up was.

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You know, it didn't matter if you were a serial killer, as long as you got the mess cleaned up by noon and made it to church, it was fine, and that's how your mom and dad lived.

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I mean, it was you know.

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I remember Uncle Tom pulls in and there's the wheels falling off of the truck or something, and you know he hit something on the road and, well, we got to go to church.

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Okay, then we all you know, piled in the car, another car.

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I'm like all the way thinking is the other wheel going to fall off?

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And I'm going to die with these kids in the back of this car and they're probably, probably gonna eat me alive and that'll be it.

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That'll be the end of my story how much did you precede them to move to Colorado, like what?

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How old when you got to leave the babysitting trauma?

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How old were you when you guys moved to Colorado?

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uh, I was 15 um, and I had my 16th birthday, uh, in september.

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So I went from a town with 87 people in it to starting my junior year at cherry creek high school with over 3 000 kids, and all I could think of was thank god, I got out of nebr.

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And then how long after that did you get Like 10 years?

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How long was the gap?

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Well, so Amy and I have 13 years between us, so seven years later we would have moved to Colorado.

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Yeah, the stories that you tell about babysitting us.

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We were sitting around last night For our listeners at home.

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We were sitting around last night just telling stories about Maureen, who is our next oldest sister, climbing the curtains.

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That's my favorite.

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That's my favorite story too.

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I'm glad you can rejoice in that.

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Well, and how old was Maureen when that happened?

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Probably two.

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Will you tell the story for those of us that don't haven't heard it?

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yes, because my mother had these.

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First of all, we weren't allowed to touch the walls, so the messes stayed outside.

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And, uh, my mother had these series of curtains that were like layer upon layer upon layer, and they all had their own mechanism that you, you know, pulled and they were very sturdy.

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So I'm watching, uh, oh, and I believe Nancy had just climbed up the outside of the steps and got her legs caught in the banister.

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So I'm like, okay, where's the mayonnaise?

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Because that's what my mom used to use on me to get my fat legs out from between the whatever those are called, the balusters or whatever.

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Like by pulling you in.

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Come on, there's mayonnaise in the kitchen.

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I was like flipped backwards, because every time I wanted to see how high I could go.

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And then I'm like, oh, I'm getting scared, so I just shoved my fat thigh in there.

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And then I'm like, oh, I'm an acrobat, I'd lay backwards until the blood would run to my head, and then there was a couple times I probably passed out, but anyway.

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So Nancy, I think had seen me do that, so she's doing that.

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And Maureen is now climbing up the series of drapes using her muddy feet on the walls and I'm like, oh no.

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So I go over to where the drapes are.

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She had climbed on the top and is laying on her stomach with her leg hanging down, and I'm like, oh, I've got to get her off there.

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What do I do?

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So I was holding on to the drapes, like, flicking the drapes, trying to get her down, and she's just like smiling at me like you're gonna die, were you planning to like flick her off?

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and yeah, I didn't know, I just wanted her off.

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My big worry was that she was going to pull the curtain rod out and then, oh, then I'm really screwed because we had plaster I think I don't know could have been paneling, who knows whatever.

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Mayonnaise comes off quickly often, but yeah, that was a good time.

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Amy tells stories about us coming or her having to come along on vacation, getting talked into coming along to help babysit us kids, and there was a big enough gap where I can't even imagine.

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I liken it to Marines kids and the idea of all four of them coming and just being completely feral is like, oh my god, you know, I can imagine that that's what that would feel like well, and it was always presented to me as oh, you're gonna have so much fun, you're gonna have so much fun.

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Uh, uncle Tom and Aunt Mary are going on vacation to the Black Hills.

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I'm like, oh okay, oh, they'd like you to come along.

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Fantastic, great.

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Now I'm stuck in a hotel room with these children while Uncle Tom and Aunt Mary are just going out to have time by themselves, and then I got locked in the bathroom with a sweaty door.

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I finally was able to take a shower and I think it was either you or Maureen had puked and I was tasked with cleaning that up, and I was pretty sure none of you knew how to chew your food.

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Because there were chunks that you know were staying in a hotel.

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I think it was a hotel.

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It could have been a hostel at that, I don't know but yeah.

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So all I wanted to do was take a shower, and then I got locked in the bathroom because the door swelled up and had to be rescued by a fireman while your mother was berating your father why he couldn't get the door off.

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So that was a good time too.

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Good times, good times.

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I love when Amy says like I got invited along for some light babysitting and then it was, and what a dumbass, I kept doing it.

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That's on you.

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Yeah, stupid, that's on you if you don't know how that stuff works Well.

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The best one was the.

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I would like Aunt Mary would like you to come and help her.

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Can peaches?

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Great.

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And I think the house had burned down or something, so you were living in a basement dwelling, so that was before you Were you born when the trailer burned.

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I don't know the answer to that.

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I think that was between Maureen and you.

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I think so too, you lived in the basement house.

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I did live in the basement house and again you don't know you're not normal until you start comparing stories with other people and then it's kind of like that's not.

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There's not a me too situation in any of my upbringing with any of my friends talking about theirs, just so everyone knows everyone's not like same these you mean no one else almost nobody else has a kitchen in their basement no, and I had an opportunity a couple months ago.

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I was up north on this retreat and I was hanging out with this one gal and we were talking about different stories about growing up and everything that I would say.

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They would be like oh my god, I'm so sorry and I'm like no is that not right?

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And then I started unpacking it and putting it in the perspective of like the girls, and would that be okay with me if the, if that was happening to girls and I'm thinking, oh my god, this is not great at all.

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So I understand the herdman's component of that evolution of parenting is so funny because lauren and I were just talking just a little bit ago about the like, the change in I think it was car seats or something like.

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My oldest brother is almost 60 and my dad talks about his car seat being like essentially a five gallon bucket that hooks that went over the seat and then holes for his legs.

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Like it wasn't for safety, right, it was.

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You're gonna just sit there so I can drive and not worry about you.

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It had nothing to do with anything else, but that's how everyone parented.

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Like yeah, yeah, that's a car seat, right you didn't have that.

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Well, maureen used to lay in that.

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We were talking about that, where she would lay in the back window.

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Amy was talking about her getting sunburned, because mom's, like she's fine.

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I mean, there wasn't any of that she drove or she was in the back of that huge like just laying up there all the way from your house to my house, which was what?

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40 some miles, Just baking in the sun.

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Yeah, oh, she'll wake up in a little bit With a sunburn.

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Roll over and roast the other side.

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Who was?

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the most verbal of all of them.

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Ooh, who was the most verbal of all?

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of them.

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I really didn't have a lot to do, I mean, because we had moved by then.

00:19:12.993 --> 00:19:26.651
So I guess when you guys came to Denver, I didn't really, I mean you were kind of out on your own thing happening and like like I knew you a little bit.

00:19:26.651 --> 00:19:30.060
Um, keith was loud, but I didn't really.

00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:37.540
I kind of learned at that point to stay away, you learned finally after how many years I finally got it.

00:19:38.242 --> 00:19:40.425
yeah, I didn't, I know.

00:19:40.425 --> 00:19:47.227
Nancy was um, she was not loud, she just was always doing something.

00:19:47.227 --> 00:19:55.968
And then Maureen was probably Maureen, she would make noises, and I mean, at least I knew where she was.

00:19:58.525 --> 00:20:01.746
She was a lot, maureen, and God bless her.

00:20:01.746 --> 00:20:05.145
Because literally amazing, but she was a lot, and she marched to the beat of her.

00:20:05.145 --> 00:20:08.829
Because literally amazing, but she was a lot, and she marched to the beat of her own drummer always.

00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:28.540
You know, that was one of the things that was very different for me is I, when we moved to Colorado, it was very important to me to fit in, and so I would go to extremes to be able to fit in and not stand out, but she was just completely content to march to the beat of her own drummer.

00:20:28.961 --> 00:20:30.645
And I think about even our time there.

00:20:30.645 --> 00:20:31.528
We would go play.

00:20:31.528 --> 00:20:44.207
We would go play football at the park no pads, full tackle, maureen and I with the boys, and we would get picked first when we were doing schoolhouse picks, you know, because Maureen and I would.

00:20:44.207 --> 00:20:46.092
It was savage shit.

00:20:46.092 --> 00:20:50.382
And so I look back at that and I think these are not like oh, look at this cute girl in the whatever.

00:20:50.382 --> 00:20:59.266
You wonder why I ended up in construction and why I'm dead inside and why I don't have the feminine balance of whatever.

00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:10.680
I wasn't dealt that, I wasn't given that, see, and I was told don't beat up on the boys, because then they won't want to date you Lucky.

00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:12.185
You can't be bigger than them.

00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:16.351
You can't be stronger than them, because then they won't want to date you.

00:21:18.702 --> 00:21:47.755
Yeah, one of the topics for that we talk about a lot is our parents dealt to us an offensive amount of shame because of how they were raised, and so when amy talks about the, the things that you're saying as far as like don't do this or do this, or making sure that you fit into whatever this mold is, I look back at that and I just think shame is like the absolute worst, especially the shame associated with stuff that people weren't educated on anyway.

00:21:47.859 --> 00:21:51.223
And then choices or decisions are made and then the consequence of it.

00:21:51.223 --> 00:21:56.069
That's what you need to feel shame for, but you weren't educated on what got you to that place in the first place.

00:21:56.259 --> 00:21:57.164
Yeah, but think about that.

00:21:57.164 --> 00:22:02.012
We look at the technology and the information that we have at our fingertips.

00:22:02.012 --> 00:22:03.765
Our parents didn't have that.

00:22:03.765 --> 00:22:04.929
They didn't have the internet.

00:22:04.929 --> 00:22:12.299
They didn't have like, if you wanted knowledge, you had to know someone that had either tried it or heard something and was willing to talk about it.

00:22:12.299 --> 00:22:15.369
And was willing to talk about it, which was not a big thing back then.

00:22:15.369 --> 00:22:18.107
And so you look at all of the things where nowadays we go.

00:22:18.107 --> 00:22:19.412
How is that even possible?

00:22:19.412 --> 00:22:35.987
You know, one of the things that we were talking about is all of this teenage pregnancy that was happening in this high school in Colorado, where people would get shipped off to to have babies and then go home like nothing happened and no one would talk about it and it happened.

00:22:36.047 --> 00:22:36.910
I mean All the time.

00:22:36.910 --> 00:22:41.204
Even in our small group we have a decent number of people that were there A handful of people that that happened to.

00:22:41.204 --> 00:22:58.050
And then you talk to other people and they're like everyone knows someone that got pregnant in high school and was shipped off somewhere else to have their baby, and then come back like oh, when you look at the shame associated with that, if you don't process that and deal with that, you're carrying that around all the way, all the way through.

00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.382
That doesn't just go away.

00:23:01.382 --> 00:23:26.653
There's a lot of shit associated with that for me that I look at and I think I was raised with a ton of shame and being able to go back and ask mom you know, when we come up to Colorado and we sit and we just talk about things, I'm fascinated Because the things that she tells me about how she was raised by her dad and her mom with you're not allowed to wear shorts and don't show your legs and we don't act that way.

00:23:26.653 --> 00:23:29.807
And then the shame component of the organized religion.

00:23:29.807 --> 00:23:31.010
That came into that as well.

00:23:31.010 --> 00:23:37.230
That's obviously a big thing and Amy and I have talked about that when we knew that that doesn't fit for us.

00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:45.388
And then to be raised in an environment that you're just crammed with that down your throat, when you know that that's not like at a molecular level.

00:23:45.388 --> 00:23:46.824
This is not for me.

00:23:46.824 --> 00:23:56.268
And then the shame that comes with it, because it's very much shame-based and that doesn't mean my biggest part with organized religion is the hypocrisy and all of that.

00:23:56.268 --> 00:24:20.416
I can be a good person, a decent person and own my shit, instead of pretending to be something you're not and then talking about it under the under the under the curtains or behind the curtains, or however you say that or using the guise of religion to talk about it, and you can just talk about it, yeah, yeah, but and you're being awfully quiet I was thinking the same thing.

00:24:20.737 --> 00:24:29.852
Yeah, you guys are talking about stuff that was before me, so yeah, for those of you that are listening, I do just want to do a quick description of what Brennan and Caitlin are wearing.

00:24:29.852 --> 00:24:32.967
You might want to check this out on YouTube.

00:24:32.967 --> 00:24:33.608
Just to get a gander.

00:24:33.608 --> 00:24:36.184
I don't think you could describe it.

00:24:36.184 --> 00:24:37.388
Oh, I'm going to try.

00:24:37.388 --> 00:24:42.450
These two yahoos, Cameron and I vacation with them.

00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:45.842
I love Caitlin looking at me with those judgy eyes like careful what you say, how and I?

00:24:46.061 --> 00:24:46.682
vacation with him, I love.

00:24:46.702 --> 00:24:49.288
Caitlin looking at me with those judgy eyes like how would I describe this?

00:24:49.288 --> 00:25:03.682
Brendan and Caitlin are some of the most fun adults on the planet and they don't give a shit what other people think, and they have a good time and they the group of friends that they pal around with facilitate and foster this type of environment as well.

00:25:03.682 --> 00:25:04.403
They're amazing.

00:25:04.484 --> 00:25:19.182
They're amazing and I love your friend group you have for just to paint a little picture, you have people who have a couple of bucks, who Don't give a fuck what other people think about them, and spend their money accordingly.

00:25:19.182 --> 00:25:30.810
So, like, have you ever thought, ooh, I'd like to buy a bus and put a stripper pole in that so that our friends have a place to go drive around their Brendan and Caitlin are like that's normal or a limousine?

00:25:30.851 --> 00:25:41.569
Yeah, a limousine they bought a limousine with horns on the front of it and then, when we flew up to Colorado, came and picked us up in that thing, used it for a few years and then sold it.

00:25:41.569 --> 00:25:49.280
But that's I mean they would, one of their kids would like drive that thing to the grocery store so I could park that bitch like nobody.

00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:51.060
Exactly I mean capable children.

00:25:51.060 --> 00:25:54.500
That is what we were raising capable children, but Party yard.

00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.284
Yeah, slip and slide, yeah, oh yeah, the slip and slide, oh my.

00:25:57.324 --> 00:25:58.786
God, let's talk about the slip and slide.

00:25:58.786 --> 00:26:01.169
So, brennan and Caitlin, let me finish with the outfits.

00:26:01.169 --> 00:26:01.609
I'm so sorry.

00:26:01.609 --> 00:26:08.287
So these outfits that these two yahoos are wearing are gold and gold, like tiger jumpsuits.

00:26:08.714 --> 00:26:18.615
So we went on a vacation to Miami with Brennan and Caitlin Cameron and I did, and these two yahoos showed up in these outfits because they just do this shit.

00:26:18.615 --> 00:26:20.457
They rode all the way on the plane.

00:26:20.457 --> 00:26:21.436
They didn't like change.

00:26:21.436 --> 00:26:28.421
When they got there, they go to the airport in these outfits and walk around living their best lives while people are watching.

00:26:28.421 --> 00:26:36.766
So if you're ever like who are those assholes that do shit like this, these two, these two plan things like what we called slip and slide at their house.

00:26:36.766 --> 00:27:01.219
Brendan and Caitlin live out on 40 acres east of Denver, and Brendan works for a company that does heavy equipment, heavy dirt, moving equipment and so they would just bring some of that out to their property and clear the land so that you have this I don't even know how long it was 400 feet 400 feet long slip and slide, and then I'm the asshole.

00:27:01.239 --> 00:27:02.343
that's like I got a couple of bucks.

00:27:02.343 --> 00:27:03.681
I ship a tarp up there.

00:27:03.681 --> 00:27:06.141
It's a pond liner, whatever.

00:27:06.161 --> 00:27:06.983
How many gallons were in it?

00:27:06.983 --> 00:27:09.099
27,000 gallons 27,000 gallons.

00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:09.882
I mean, we just do this.

00:27:09.942 --> 00:27:21.625
Very circulating pump and a bar and a bar and a pulley system on the bottom, the ATV that pulls and so you hold on to the rope up at the top and just Go 40 miles an hour.

00:27:21.625 --> 00:27:23.788
Sound system.

00:27:23.788 --> 00:27:24.528
It's a good time.

00:27:24.528 --> 00:27:25.611
It was.

00:27:25.611 --> 00:27:26.270
It was a good time.

00:27:26.270 --> 00:27:33.527
I don't know that I'm brave enough at 47 to do that anymore, because I remember some pretty savage injuries.

00:27:33.527 --> 00:27:39.097
But yeah, if you're wondering who are the yahoos that do shit like this, these guys, brennan would do.

00:27:39.097 --> 00:27:48.311
I remember when hearing things about you would buy old cars and bash out all the windows and then do like derby out on your own property.

00:27:48.333 --> 00:27:48.795
Or on the highway.

00:27:49.375 --> 00:27:52.342
Well, so Side roads, not the highway.

00:27:52.342 --> 00:27:55.104
So this is what Amy's losing her shit right now.

00:27:55.104 --> 00:27:58.865
This is what feral children look like when they get to be adults.

00:27:59.055 --> 00:28:06.608
But I have to say, two of the best times I've had with you guys are the slip and slide.

00:28:06.608 --> 00:28:12.807
I mean, Steve and I brought our chairs, our lawn chairs, and just sat there and watched the fireworks go.

00:28:12.974 --> 00:28:15.584
I mean, it was astounding what was happening.

00:28:16.095 --> 00:28:26.586
And then Cameron brings out a hog that had been roasted or something and I'm like you know, all right, I'm good with this.

00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:35.134
And that whole hog was gone without a single utensil, it was like cavemen, it was insane.

00:28:35.255 --> 00:28:39.482
I grabbed some of the meat with my bare hand and went back to my chair and sat down.

00:28:39.502 --> 00:28:42.868
We didn't have plates Plates.

00:28:42.929 --> 00:28:43.470
What are those?

00:28:43.470 --> 00:28:45.138
Just so the listeners know.

00:28:45.138 --> 00:28:52.728
If you don't think that we're getting vulnerable today, understand that these stories being out there for the human consumption is a lot.

00:28:52.728 --> 00:28:55.717
There's a lot that goes into some of the redneck shit that happens in our family, back to the Herdman.

00:28:55.717 --> 00:28:59.460
So the very first time we had just been married and we had all of the redneck shit that happens in our family, well, back to the Herdman.

00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:09.267
So the very first time we had just been married and we had all of the family out, it was the first time I'd met some of them and in our teeny little house we had everybody.

00:29:09.267 --> 00:29:09.988
We didn't have any kids.

00:29:09.988 --> 00:29:15.392
And Brennan decides to we all go outside and Brennan decides to just blow some stuff up.

00:29:16.914 --> 00:29:21.962
Like yeah, Oxyacetylene bombs are amazing and you're pregnant.

00:29:22.044 --> 00:29:34.315
I remember you standing there scratching your belly going god damn it, brendan, if you light that field on fire one more time I mean seriously for us feral herdman children.

00:29:34.955 --> 00:29:40.585
Caitlin is a fucking amazing addition and cameron yes it, just it, cameron.

00:29:40.685 --> 00:29:47.644
it couldn't get better, I mean it couldn't get better Cameron is about we're the Herdman Herders we just try to corral you guys into.

00:29:48.438 --> 00:29:51.241
Keep it in a little bit, but that's the kind of shit that happens.

00:29:51.241 --> 00:29:55.317
So what happens when feral children get older and have a couple of bucks underneath them and whatever?

00:29:55.317 --> 00:29:59.505
Awesomeness, awesomeness, right, I'm building a second story office edition.

00:29:59.505 --> 00:30:01.788
I'm putting in a fucking slide out the back of my office.

00:30:01.828 --> 00:30:02.148
What.

00:30:02.369 --> 00:30:03.191
Yeah, I'm not kidding.

00:30:03.191 --> 00:30:04.031
You didn't tell me that.

00:30:04.031 --> 00:30:04.653
Oh, it's happening.

00:30:04.773 --> 00:30:05.595
Are you putting a poll in too?

00:30:05.595 --> 00:30:06.517
Fireman's poll.

00:30:06.537 --> 00:30:23.090
I can't put a poll in only because I'm afraid everyone doesn't realize the grip strength that it takes to get down one of those, and I don't give a fuck what people think, which is another public service announcement.

00:30:23.090 --> 00:30:24.701
Live your life right.

00:30:24.701 --> 00:30:27.681
I don't think you've cared, Brendan, what people think, your entire life.

00:30:27.681 --> 00:30:29.380
I'm guessing, or was there a point when you did?

00:30:29.434 --> 00:30:35.281
I'm guessing there wasn't, because it just doesn't feel like that when I was fat, that one time in fourth grade, I cared other than that.

00:30:35.734 --> 00:30:36.856
You were fat in third grade.

00:30:37.557 --> 00:30:38.398
It shocks everyone.

00:30:38.398 --> 00:30:39.059
It's so funny.

00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.603
I know I didn't know that I had to strip down, butt naked almost.

00:30:41.603 --> 00:30:47.030
I was in my underwear to weigh in for football, to get light enough to not have to play defensive line.

00:30:47.030 --> 00:30:50.505
I wanted to play tight end and I had to take all my clothes off to make weight.

00:30:51.336 --> 00:30:52.280
I didn't know that.

00:30:52.615 --> 00:30:56.204
It only lasted a year, and then I grew six inches and I was good, we haven't seen any pictures of it.

00:30:56.265 --> 00:31:05.122
Like lots of people want photographic evidence Similar to when I told you you looked old and I had to find all those photographs to Well all.

00:31:05.182 --> 00:31:06.760
I can say is welcome to my world.

00:31:08.096 --> 00:31:09.541
I wasn't doing roids when I got there.

00:31:09.541 --> 00:31:11.643
You mean, I wasn't doing roids to get there.

00:31:11.775 --> 00:31:14.026
Well, that was a medical necessity.

00:31:15.453 --> 00:31:19.423
Amy has a bigger dick than anyone sitting on these couches, just FYI.

00:31:19.423 --> 00:31:23.401
But we don't want to tell people that because then it makes them feel unworthy.

00:31:23.862 --> 00:31:24.923
She can also pick up cars.

00:31:28.030 --> 00:31:36.414
Mustache power, my mustache for ladies with a with a hairy upper lip, we call that a mustache makes it more feminine.

00:31:36.414 --> 00:31:53.227
So amy grew up in a household where, again, with the shame and this is fun to hear as we get older, because the shame is a fun component for me, I think, just interesting but told all of the things about you can't be this, or thank God you're big.

00:31:53.227 --> 00:31:55.323
If you're bigger then you get to be the strong one.

00:31:55.323 --> 00:31:56.500
Boys aren't going to like you.

00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:58.963
What does that look like for you in your household?

00:32:04.555 --> 00:32:05.997
some of the things that your parents said to you.

00:32:05.997 --> 00:32:06.718
Oh my, my, I was a very sick child.

00:32:06.718 --> 00:32:22.028
So then when I finally grew, I grew really fast and I matured very quickly, um, and I remember my dad, um, telling me one time that you're never going to get a man if you don't reduce and I'm like you can't even spell reduce.

00:32:22.028 --> 00:32:24.701
What are you talking about?

00:32:24.701 --> 00:32:30.842
And Aunt Janice was really good about that Like you're getting a little heavy.

00:32:30.842 --> 00:32:34.761
I'm like a little what I lifted up the back of the car.

00:32:37.296 --> 00:32:45.069
So I was expected when we moved to Denver, I was expected to work with my dad.

00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:55.942
We were putting in tie wall, railroad ties, and I was strong enough that I could hammer in the dead man and I was like, oh, that's awesome.

00:32:55.942 --> 00:33:16.636
I mean, I was really good with that sledgehammer and my brother was supposed to be helping us, which he was not really helping us, um, but this crew, um, had come over, they were watching us and I mean I was lifting up the railroad ties out of the back of the truck and, and you know, laying them down.

00:33:16.656 --> 00:33:25.856
I remember at 16 I was 15 then yeah, and, but that was just a year and a half off the steroid.

00:33:25.856 --> 00:33:29.784
So I I you know I was probably 235.

00:33:29.784 --> 00:33:30.345
Then I was a.

00:33:30.345 --> 00:33:31.307
I was a big girl.

00:33:31.468 --> 00:33:54.527
Well, like I'm petite now, but anyway so uh, I remember this crew had come over and they were trying to talk to my dad and you know, by that time he's on the back of the truck having a beer fall staff sitting there and I'm working and I mean I was like the power of nailing that beam.

00:33:54.527 --> 00:33:55.288
Every time.

00:33:55.288 --> 00:33:59.205
I mean I was like, oh, this is fantastic.

00:33:59.205 --> 00:34:10.188
And this crew asked my dad about me, like, because then they were Wanting to hire you, I think they did I think they did.

00:34:11.014 --> 00:34:12.360
They were probably like can she cook too?

00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:19.614
So I heard my dad say, well, she ain't much to look at, but she's a hard worker.

00:34:19.614 --> 00:34:21.864
I'm like he finally noticed.

00:34:21.864 --> 00:34:23.954
He finally noticed.

00:34:24.074 --> 00:34:24.697
And I was like.

00:34:25.097 --> 00:34:26.262
And then the next swing.

00:34:26.262 --> 00:34:32.543
I almost took out my ankle and I was like, oh, it's okay, it's all right, and I was so proud that day.

00:34:32.735 --> 00:34:36.920
Isn't that crazy that you heard that and you thought I'm proud because he noticed I'm a hard worker.

00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:40.344
Instead of that motherfucker just talked about me like that.

00:34:40.344 --> 00:34:44.769
That I, yeah, but that was like I was constantly like did you notice?

00:34:44.989 --> 00:34:45.951
did you notice I did this?

00:34:45.951 --> 00:34:47.016
Did you notice I moved this?

00:34:47.016 --> 00:34:47.719
Did you you know?

00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:55.304
Yeah, did you notice I kept the Wessendorf kids from burning the house down gold star for that one, amy, thank you for keeping.

00:34:55.304 --> 00:35:01.887
Thank you for helping him make it to adulthood yeah, well you know, thank god, or we wouldn't have had that fantastic time.

00:35:01.887 --> 00:35:05.405
I mean, my husband talks about that all the time, the slip and slide.

00:35:05.614 --> 00:35:06.920
No blowing up stuff.

00:35:07.242 --> 00:35:08.436
Oh yeah, he's like.

00:35:08.436 --> 00:35:10.623
I pulled some furniture out of a dumpster.

00:35:10.623 --> 00:35:11.626
Let's blow that up.

00:35:11.626 --> 00:35:12.976
I'm like yes.

00:35:12.976 --> 00:35:15.119
I'm like, good yeah.

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.264
At that point I was like, oh, thank God, they're feral children.

00:35:19.264 --> 00:35:20.746
This is fantastic.

00:35:20.766 --> 00:35:23.291
Yeah, feral children as adults are pretty fun.

00:35:23.291 --> 00:35:29.474
You know we don't get twisted up in what's on social media or what people are doing with their lives.

00:35:29.474 --> 00:35:31.864
We are living our lives to the fullest.

00:35:31.864 --> 00:35:34.443
I look at that for what I do in my life.

00:35:34.443 --> 00:35:37.824
I don't give a fuck what other people think I couldn't care less.

00:35:37.824 --> 00:35:40.164
If it sparks my soul, I'm doing it.

00:35:40.164 --> 00:35:42.155
I fuck what other people think I couldn't care less.

00:35:42.155 --> 00:35:42.713
If it sparks my soul, I'm doing it.

00:35:42.713 --> 00:35:44.213
Doing it, and that doesn't always mean like blowing shit up or whatever.

00:35:44.213 --> 00:35:45.536
Obviously it looks a little bit different for me.

00:35:45.536 --> 00:35:50.150
I have a reputation to uphold, an image an image to uphold.

00:35:50.170 --> 00:35:52.637
So I just I'm like, hey, can I throw some money on your stupid event?

00:35:52.978 --> 00:35:55.543
that'd be excellent silent partner.

00:35:55.543 --> 00:35:57.186
I'm a silent partner.

00:35:57.226 --> 00:35:58.958
That's a nice, that's a nice thing.

00:35:58.958 --> 00:36:00.884
Yeah, always there to lift up.

00:36:00.884 --> 00:36:04.362
Yeah, I'm like I'm not taking credit for this shit show.

00:36:04.362 --> 00:36:07.222
Very uplifting, but I do want to be part of it for sure.

00:36:07.222 --> 00:36:12.320
We're glad you're part of our shit show both of you, I know it is pretty fun.

00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:30.463
I am curious about when you talk about your dad saying shit like that to you were you close with your mom at all when you were growing up?

00:36:30.523 --> 00:36:30.844
no, like ever.

00:36:30.844 --> 00:36:31.586
No, you were the third.

00:36:31.586 --> 00:36:32.648
Third, you're in the youngest, I was the the silent.

00:36:32.648 --> 00:36:33.289
Was jill close with your mom?

00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:39.811
No, my mom kept everybody at, just you know even her siblings yeah because mary holds her siblings to a very high regard.

00:36:39.851 --> 00:36:51.206
It's pretty cool that the pedestal she puts her siblings on well, that's why I had there was such a disconnect because I'm like I hear my mom talk and then I hear, you know, your mom talk and I was.

00:36:51.606 --> 00:37:29.106
I mean, I used to be enamored by your mother just because of, um, even though there was that emotional side to her that was so messy and so because I was not, obviously, was not very feminine, um, but I didn't, I don't know, I didn't, um, it was just a weird, a weird uh thing to see them together when they were together, because, um, there was a a weird, a weird uh thing to see them together when they were together because, um, there was a clear line of my mother being, uh, almost in the black.

00:37:29.106 --> 00:37:48.605
Aunt Janice was always in the middle, trying to, you know, dah, dah, dah, and then Aunt Mary was just emotional and I I couldn't, um, I just couldn't't identify with that, but I was always very enamored with her, just by how she, uh like handled life.

00:37:48.605 --> 00:37:56.670
I guess at that point, because I didn't see, because I didn't really have life, so I didn't know what all that entailed.

00:37:56.670 --> 00:38:03.840
And then, the older I got, I'm like, oh, it's so messy, I don't, I don't, because that was going to be another mess.

00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:05.230
I had to clean up and I didn't want to do that?

00:38:05.250 --> 00:38:06.536
Was your mom emotional like that or no?

00:38:07.157 --> 00:38:09.782
My mom was very, she was cold.

00:38:09.782 --> 00:38:13.827
Uh, not, I mean, that's the thing.

00:38:13.827 --> 00:38:18.121
As you know, we've talked about this before with my siblings, that we weren't.

00:38:18.121 --> 00:38:26.621
It's not like they beat us or anything, we just were there yeah, we were.

00:38:26.742 --> 00:38:39.525
I mean, I remember being by myself for hours up in the attic playing with um because I was sick for some reason or another, um, and finding stuff to make things out of.

00:38:39.525 --> 00:38:53.554
I mean I made a mud city out by the shed and I spent days on it and I would drive my Hot Wheel cars I had never seen bridges like that, or you know and I was just like this is fantastic.

00:38:53.554 --> 00:39:00.543
I can take dead grasshoppers and make you know the side of a building, or you know, and I had all this stuff laid out.

00:39:00.543 --> 00:39:08.536
I mean, looking back, I probably should have been seeing seeking help, but that's, you learn to play with things that you have.

00:39:08.536 --> 00:39:18.742
And I remember being in the attic and playing with um wigs and I had seen a picture of um Elizabeth Taylor and I thought, oh my god, she's pretty.

00:39:18.742 --> 00:39:21.989
I have a black wig in there and I can.

00:39:21.989 --> 00:39:26.927
So I made Elizabeth Taylor with the makeup and everything in this wig.

00:39:27.815 --> 00:39:28.858
And is that what got you into hair?

00:39:29.077 --> 00:39:36.181
Probably Well, no, actually I got into hair because when we moved to Denver, guess who didn't fit in.

00:39:37.003 --> 00:39:41.072
So they said um uh, because I would, would have quit.

00:39:41.072 --> 00:39:44.559
The only people that talked to me were the um, the druggies on the hill.

00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:45.481
They'll talk to anybody.

00:39:45.481 --> 00:39:49.278
I was like hey, how are you, you know, with my flannel shirt on?

00:39:49.278 --> 00:39:51.126
And here's all these girls with.

00:39:51.126 --> 00:39:56.541
You know, short skirts and a-line bobs were just starting to come back and I was like huh.

00:39:56.541 --> 00:40:06.126
So I worked in the um, I worked in the counselor's office because aunt janice thought that I could save people handing out religious pamphlets.

00:40:06.126 --> 00:40:08.715
And I'm like in the school counseling office.

00:40:08.735 --> 00:40:11.322
Yeah, that wouldn't have been a conflict there at all, but anyway.

00:40:11.322 --> 00:40:25.623
So I'm listening to this poor girl call in and say she cannot take the position, the last, last spot for the cosmetology program, and I was like what, you can do that?

00:40:25.623 --> 00:40:28.184
Because I was literally thinking how can I quit?

00:40:28.184 --> 00:40:29.065
I've got to quit.

00:40:29.065 --> 00:40:30.085
I don't fit in here.

00:40:30.085 --> 00:40:31.047
Nothing's working.

00:40:31.047 --> 00:40:33.949
I'm living with my parents, I can't do this.

00:40:33.949 --> 00:40:40.596
And then that just changed my world and I was like, oh my God, these people are like me, fantastic.

00:40:40.596 --> 00:40:42.496
And then I got to play with chemicals.

00:40:42.496 --> 00:40:48.708
I mean, you cannot, you can't she's not any less feral no, she acts like that.

00:40:48.748 --> 00:40:51.563
She just didn't have other people to get in trouble with.

00:40:51.563 --> 00:40:54.134
She's just, she's a vaccinated feral, right.

00:40:54.134 --> 00:40:55.717
Yeah, like right she.

00:40:55.778 --> 00:40:56.239
I mean how?

00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:56.961
What was the difference?

00:40:56.961 --> 00:40:59.836
The age difference between you and the next one in your family?

00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:03.664
Bruce was two and a half years older.

00:41:03.724 --> 00:41:05.989
Okay, were you close with him growing up?

00:41:06.918 --> 00:41:08.385
Not really.

00:41:12.018 --> 00:41:15.768
I was more close when we moved to Denver, I think, because we played softball together and we did boy stuff.

00:41:15.768 --> 00:41:17.840
And how much older is Jill than?

00:41:19.175 --> 00:41:20.338
Six and a half years.

00:41:20.338 --> 00:41:25.722
I six than you or than bruce and bruce or no than me, okay yeah, yeah.

00:41:25.742 --> 00:41:34.135
So looking at all that and the and the not talking right like you think about, imagine not having a relationship with your kids where they're really just roommates.

00:41:34.135 --> 00:41:35.858
I can't even imagine that.

00:41:35.858 --> 00:41:38.224
I literally talk with wiley about everything.

00:41:38.224 --> 00:41:40.981
We sit and talk about literally everything.

00:41:40.981 --> 00:41:46.422
That's where he gets his guidance and he can do whatever he wants with that, but that's where you get the knowledge for stuff.

00:41:46.422 --> 00:41:49.103
That's where you have people that are invested in what you're doing.

00:41:49.103 --> 00:41:51.621
Not having a relationship with your parents.

00:41:51.621 --> 00:41:55.382
What was your relationship like with your dad other than him being excited that you were strong like Ox?

00:41:57.594 --> 00:42:02.623
He as long as I laughed at his his jokes it was cool.

00:42:03.085 --> 00:42:04.487
What was your parents relationship?

00:42:04.527 --> 00:42:09.400
like like what was that example for you so I never wanted to be married.

00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:12.987
I was like, oh no, I don't need that did they fight?

00:42:13.027 --> 00:42:18.923
a lot, or they just uh, no, there was a lot of avoidance and, uh, my dad would.

00:42:18.923 --> 00:42:26.963
I always thought my dad was such a hard worker and I remember my sister, like you know, scoffing at that one time.

00:42:26.963 --> 00:42:29.527
I was like what wasn't he a hard worker?

00:42:29.527 --> 00:42:32.358
And then I realized he was a hay grinder.

00:42:32.358 --> 00:42:33.500
He worked what?

00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:37.206
Three, three, four weeks out of the year.

00:42:37.206 --> 00:42:39.878
I'm like what was he doing?

00:42:39.878 --> 00:42:41.487
Oh, that's right, he was at the bar.

00:42:42.597 --> 00:42:54.820
He's at the bar isn't it crazy how, when you're younger, you look at your parents and you almost I, I like idolize them a little bit, and then, when you get to be whatever, that age is and you think they were just normal?

00:42:54.860 --> 00:42:55.221
people.

00:42:55.221 --> 00:42:56.925
Well, that's everybody's.

00:42:56.925 --> 00:42:59.858
Everybody's dad was at the bar right it wasn't just my dad.

00:42:59.858 --> 00:43:03.483
My dad wasn't, you know.

00:43:03.483 --> 00:43:06.148
Yeah, he was probably an alcoholic, but he was a fun alcoholic.

00:43:06.148 --> 00:43:10.320
He was the town clown, you know.

00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:12.206
So we were in there again.

00:43:12.206 --> 00:43:14.648
It didn't matter if you were a serial killer.

00:43:14.648 --> 00:43:18.641
As long as you cleaned your mess up and made somebody laugh, then it was fine.

00:43:19.014 --> 00:43:20.019
And made it to church on time.

00:43:21.936 --> 00:43:27.148
And made it and put that money in the collection plate, because if you didn't, isn't it crazy how much things have changed?

00:43:27.148 --> 00:43:37.065
Now, like I look in people to me, it always surprises me because people that think look at where we are and they're disappointed and oh, there's so much to go.

00:43:37.065 --> 00:43:39.277
Yes, you're right, but look how far we've come.

00:43:39.277 --> 00:43:40.722
This is not that far ago.

00:43:40.722 --> 00:43:42.900
What we're talking about this is 50 years ago.

00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:45.101
That's not that far ago.

00:43:45.101 --> 00:43:51.503
That's not that far back that we were no one's talking Because this wasn't just for you, right?

00:43:51.574 --> 00:43:55.583
This is happening in a lot of families the shame and the not talking about things.

00:43:55.583 --> 00:44:05.297
Just don't bring it up, we push it under the rug.

00:44:05.297 --> 00:44:06.378
Girls do these things absolutely exactly.

00:44:06.378 --> 00:44:21.405
I mean, we're talking about aunties and uncles that were getting molested and other things that were happening at different places, different boarding, catholic boarding schools and and other things where it's like you send your kid off for a couple months and then they come back and we don't fix anything, we don't address anything, we just move around and we never stop the cycle.

00:44:21.485 --> 00:44:24.599
And we never stop the cycle, because there's plenty of those schools that I'm sure were wonderful.

00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.643
Yeah, like I went to 13 years of Catholic school and loved it.

00:44:27.643 --> 00:44:30.940
Sure, yeah, but it's always the bad ones.

00:44:30.940 --> 00:44:34.577
Obviously, they get the publicity, but no one, no one, talked about it, so we didn't fix.

00:44:38.492 --> 00:44:39.036
It's terrible.

00:44:39.036 --> 00:44:51.201
People not talking about things is the biggest problem and I think that's part of what, for me, drives me to do this podcast is being willing to be vulnerable, being willing to share all of the things.

00:44:51.201 --> 00:44:53.657
You can take a look at everything that I have going on.

00:44:53.657 --> 00:44:55.737
I'm not ashamed about that.

00:44:55.737 --> 00:44:59.896
I own my mistakes, all of the things, and I'm willing to talk about anything.00:44:59.896 --> 00:45:14.994


There's not anything that's off limits for me, but I think that I'm hoping that that resonates with other people also to help them spark that in their lives, or in their relationships too, of having those conversations, not just with your kids or with your friends.00:45:14.994 --> 00:45:16.998


Have those conversations with your parents.00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:18.911


That, to me, is fascinating.00:45:18.911 --> 00:45:23.101


To sit down with our folks and say tell us how this was for you.00:45:23.101 --> 00:45:25.596


This is how this was from my perspective.00:45:25.596 --> 00:45:26.759


But I was a child.00:45:26.759 --> 00:45:27.842


I didn't have any idea.00:45:27.842 --> 00:45:33.182


So when we were moving out from South Dakota to Colorado, I didn't realize how horrible that was.00:45:33.182 --> 00:45:44.311


Listening to Dad talk about the interest rates and the horrible spot that they got into financially, and he didn't want it Having to sell, having to sell everything.00:45:44.371 --> 00:45:44.932


I mean it.00:45:44.932 --> 00:45:46.978


Just it guts me to even think about that.00:45:46.978 --> 00:45:51.277


And then him not being able to reconcile that for a long, long time, and I don't know that.00:45:51.277 --> 00:45:58.356


I mean, I don't know if that he has or not, but I know that that was something that he carried around for a long, long time like on his sleeve that you could tell.00:45:58.356 --> 00:46:01.541


So again, we just don't, we don't talk about things, I don't think.00:46:01.541 --> 00:46:07.134


Do you know older people that have done therapy or done any of that where they're actually trying to unpack anything?00:46:07.134 --> 00:46:09.360


No, when did that start?00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:18.784


When did like fix your shit kind of mentality start For therapy or for, you know, fixing trauma or any of that?00:46:18.784 --> 00:46:26.960


Or talking about things, talking about being, you know, about being molested or raped or the shit that happens behind the curtain that no one wants to talk about?00:46:28.193 --> 00:46:31.724


Or even our dad's ages, who went to Vietnam and came home Didn't talk about it.00:46:31.724 --> 00:46:32.626


We didn't talk about that either.00:46:32.969 --> 00:46:33.853


That stuff didn't start.00:46:33.853 --> 00:46:37.855


Even thinking back to high school kids didn't talk about that stuff.00:46:37.855 --> 00:46:38.838


You know it was happening all the time.00:46:38.838 --> 00:46:41.478


I feel like it was 2000s before it became popular.00:46:42.932 --> 00:46:44.043


And not popular, but acceptable.00:46:44.063 --> 00:46:44.628


Yeah, acceptable.00:46:45.351 --> 00:46:50.322


You could go talk to somebody and not feel shame for trying to sort your shit out.00:46:50.630 --> 00:46:51.791


Have you ever talked to anyone, Brian?00:46:52.012 --> 00:46:55.318


No, he talks to everyone yeah.00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:56.681


I talk to myself a lot.00:46:56.681 --> 00:46:57.181


Does that count?00:46:58.123 --> 00:46:58.605


I do that too.00:46:58.670 --> 00:46:59.815


I'm scared of what I'll get into.00:46:59.815 --> 00:47:05.179


Why?00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:05.501


are you afraid?00:47:05.641 --> 00:47:10.313


Because God only knows what I'll unpack Do you want him to unpack, I'll support him in whatever.00:47:10.313 --> 00:47:11.117


Does it scare you?00:47:11.117 --> 00:47:14.391


No, it's not going to change who he is.00:47:14.391 --> 00:47:17.414


No, I understand that Maybe it's going to be better.00:47:17.414 --> 00:47:19.436


I have no idea it can't get any worse.00:47:19.597 --> 00:47:22.679


I'm afraid the rapist would go hang themselves after.00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:24.021


I talked to him for a couple hours.00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:27.023


By the rapist he means the therapist.00:47:27.023 --> 00:47:28.224


Thank you, sean Connery.00:47:28.224 --> 00:47:32.592


Yeah, so for anyone who hasn't seen the Sean Connery clip, we say la tits now.00:47:32.592 --> 00:47:35.398


And you know, for Let it Snow all of the.00:47:35.398 --> 00:47:46.072


We have a lot of inside jokes and it probably doesn't read well for listeners of the podcast, and so for that I'm deeply apologetic.00:47:46.072 --> 00:47:49.802


Uh no, I'm curious about that because you're you're in this sandwich generation I think right for our kids.00:47:49.842 --> 00:47:53.900


We want them to talk about the things and talk about the feelings and whatever.00:47:53.900 --> 00:47:59.179


But are we setting the example right when you, when you want your kids to deal with their stuff?00:47:59.179 --> 00:48:01.594


I want, I want my kids to deal with their stuff.00:48:01.594 --> 00:48:02.884


The girls have more than to deal with their stuff.00:48:02.884 --> 00:48:05.797


The girls have more than Wiley does, just because of their setup for things.00:48:05.797 --> 00:48:18.666


But as they embark on unpacking things and working through trauma, I'm so proud of them because I know how good that feels on the other side Not that I'm on the other side, but just being willing to do that work.00:48:18.666 --> 00:48:34.114


And so it's interesting because, yes, we're trying to encourage them to do that, but then leading by example doesn't hurt when you start unpacking, because you will, when you start unpacking, keep me posted how that goes I'd like to see how it ties in with front row seat yeah, yeah, I don't.00:48:34.313 --> 00:48:35.376


I don't think it's a bad thing.00:48:35.376 --> 00:48:44.648


Oh, you know, cameron has started unpacking stuff and it's and it's fascinating to me because we talk about being interested in other people's dynamics for stuff.00:48:44.648 --> 00:48:51.936


Right, I know that you're very much into that of like helping other people and what is that and how did that tie in and where were you in the birth order and how do your parents?00:48:51.936 --> 00:48:54.181


You know how, like to me, it's fascinating for all that.00:48:54.181 --> 00:49:00.521


So I think I mentioned this to you last time, turning that on yourself and starting to really get curious about that.00:49:00.521 --> 00:49:02.204


Very cool.00:49:02.344 --> 00:49:05.536


Yeah yourself and starting to really get curious about that.00:49:05.536 --> 00:49:28.356


Very cool, yeah, very cool, because especially, you know, when you're able to get other people's perspectives on how they saw things listening to amy talk about things that I don't remember but then when she's painting that picture, I'm like, yeah, that tracks well, the cool part is, amy gives everyone a perspective of what your mom was like before any of you were around, or that you remember, which is really cool yeah like what were our parents like when they were in their early 20s or when they had small children, or I mean we don't.00:49:29.016 --> 00:49:30.621


There was no movies, there was no.00:49:30.621 --> 00:49:33.034


All of their pictures are gone because of the fire.00:49:33.034 --> 00:49:34.336


They lost all of that stuff.00:49:34.336 --> 00:49:40.697


So we have pictures from their wedding, but then we don't have a lot at all until you guys were around.00:49:40.697 --> 00:49:41.719


But that's.00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:50.132


Those are fun years, like listening to them talk about their stories and my parents too in their early 20s or whatever, and the struggles they had and the fun they had and all that.00:49:50.193 --> 00:49:56.295


It's fascinating because they came along and ruined it yeah, well, I mean, they had plenty of fun.00:49:56.777 --> 00:50:02.782


They were blowing shit up at parties, I'm sure too, probably not to the same extent, but came from from somewhere.00:50:02.782 --> 00:50:11.773


Yeah, but I love talking to them when you sit down and you just start asking questions, and my favorite are the ones when they differ on their answers.00:50:11.773 --> 00:50:12.675


Those are super fun.00:50:12.695 --> 00:50:13.557


Those are the best.00:50:13.557 --> 00:50:15.250


Those are the best, yeah, yeah.00:50:15.471 --> 00:50:27.797


Well, that's so strange because, Bruce, my brother, uh, I've talked to my sister-in-law about you know, all this stuff growing up, and my brother doesn't remember any of this.00:50:27.797 --> 00:50:33.335


He had a wonderful childhood, he had you know it's not that our childhood was bad.00:50:33.335 --> 00:50:34.237


We didn't know any better.00:50:34.398 --> 00:50:35.942


No, well, that's the whole thing.00:50:35.942 --> 00:50:38.980


Like there's not anybody to blame for this.00:50:38.980 --> 00:50:56.757


You know, when we talk and I tell Mom and Dad that all the time Like I truly believe and this is later realization for me, but I truly believe that they did the best that they could with what they have, because I also look at how I fucked up my kids and I think I truly believe I'm doing the best that I can.00:50:56.757 --> 00:50:58.902


But I look back and I think, god, I could have done so much better.00:50:58.902 --> 00:51:00.012


Not in that moment.00:51:00.012 --> 00:51:01.998


I was doing the best that I could with what I had.00:51:01.998 --> 00:51:05.918


Yes, I know better now, so I do better now, but they're just doing the best that they can.00:51:06.250 --> 00:51:29.974


So to hear their stories about stuff to me it's huge and I would love to hear how they feel about that too, because in the last couple years I've spoken with my mom and she has said that she feels like she let us down my sisters and I when we were younger because she was similar to you.00:51:29.994 --> 00:51:31.458


She was growing a business, she was doing all these things, but it was.00:51:31.458 --> 00:51:32.139


She was there every day, all day.00:51:32.139 --> 00:51:38.416


Dad was working to support the business and the rest of us, and so she wasn't at parties at school, she wasn't a room mother for anything, but she worked her ass off for us.00:51:38.416 --> 00:51:46.985


And when she said she felt like she cheated us and that she wasn't able to be there for us when we were small, I said, mom, you did absolutely the opposite.00:51:46.985 --> 00:51:50.836


You were the mom that brought chickens to school so everyone could see what small chickens were.00:51:50.836 --> 00:52:03.271


She wrestled a turkey at thanksgiving and brought a full-size tom turkey to school and left it there for two days and fed it and did all the things so that everyone could see you know where that stuff comes from.00:52:03.291 --> 00:52:05.297


Like mom, no one else did that right.00:52:05.297 --> 00:52:11.396


I'm definitely not gonna wrestle a fucking turkey and bring it to school, no way.00:52:11.396 --> 00:52:17.737


But she did all these things and I said, mom, you've given us the example of you put your family first every time.00:52:17.737 --> 00:52:19.961


Your kids were absolutely number one.00:52:19.961 --> 00:52:23.920


But you gave us an example of work ethics similar to what Wiley has said about you.00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:30.498


That is unmatched and that was so important to us, like it didn't matter that she was a woman.00:52:30.498 --> 00:52:32.257


She could kick anybody's ass.00:52:32.257 --> 00:52:34.835


She was a badass, she was awesome.00:52:35.717 --> 00:52:36.398


She was angry.00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:38.181


Your mom was angry.00:52:38.362 --> 00:52:39.003


No, not really.00:52:39.003 --> 00:52:40.173


She was an asshole though.00:52:41.257 --> 00:52:41.759


She was tough.00:52:44.751 --> 00:52:46.818


She was intimidating when I first met her.00:52:46.818 --> 00:52:48.786


Well, she should be it's a whole different thing for women it's a.00:52:48.786 --> 00:52:50.954


It's a totally different thing for women to hold their own.00:52:51.056 --> 00:52:52.664


Yeah, she like it doesn't see that at all.00:52:52.664 --> 00:52:55.673


She does not see herself as a yeah, as intimidating.00:52:55.673 --> 00:52:57.177


I agree, absolutely.00:52:57.579 --> 00:52:58.601


I respect the shit out of that.00:52:58.601 --> 00:53:04.119


I've been told a bunch over the course of my life that I'm intimidating and I'm like I don't feel like that at all.00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:04.480


I don't.00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:07.434


But I look at that from the outside and it's like I understand it.00:53:07.434 --> 00:53:17.461


But that's just what you have to do when you're getting coffee for a husband that's growing his business dickhead confidence is perceived as intimidation.00:53:17.481 --> 00:53:20.152


Yeah, brennan has a for the listeners at home.00:53:20.152 --> 00:53:23.300


Brennan has a way that he likes to rib me about.00:53:23.300 --> 00:53:45.137


You know, when I was starting the construction company with my husband Because the construction company is so incredibly antiquated in their beliefs and the thought for a lot of the people that we did business with was that I would be the one that would get the coffee for my husband and answer phones While the men did the business, while the men did the business and for anyone that knows us understands that.00:53:46.811 --> 00:53:49.750


It's not the case, but, god, it gets under your skin and I fucking love it.00:53:50.291 --> 00:53:52.039


It doesn't anymore, but it is funny, right?00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.481


I find it funny because it's also it hasn't changed that much.00:53:55.481 --> 00:53:59.621


I still look at women in construction and I still feel like, and not just construction.00:53:59.742 --> 00:54:00.762


No, it's not just construction.00:54:00.802 --> 00:54:02.202


No, it's not just construction and that's all I mean.00:54:02.202 --> 00:54:02.402


That's it.00:54:02.402 --> 00:54:10.226


That's the industry that I know the most, but I still look at that and I think we shouldn't have to work so hard to industry the same way.00:54:10.226 --> 00:54:17.210


Yeah, I don't have very many in my industry at all, yeah right and do you feel like you have to work twice as hard to be able to take be taken half as seriously?00:54:17.231 --> 00:54:18.172


I don't really give a shit.00:54:18.172 --> 00:54:22.742


My I go to work so that I can not provide, because brennan does all that.00:54:22.742 --> 00:54:35.235


He's the man um, so that I can be um, involved and plugged in with the kids like being a mom was always number one in my job search even before we were married or had children.00:54:35.336 --> 00:54:39.112


Yeah, my job search had to do with what I could do and still be a mom.00:54:39.112 --> 00:54:44.273


So I like what I do and I really like who I work with, but it doesn't matter to me at all.00:54:44.273 --> 00:54:47.079


I'm I'm close enough to be to the kids whatever they want.00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:47.740


I can.00:54:47.740 --> 00:54:52.500


Nothing I do changes the course of the free world, so I can help my mom and dad when they need it.00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:53.550


I can help the kids.00:54:53.550 --> 00:54:55.713


I can get bread and coffee.00:54:55.713 --> 00:54:56.554


I can do whatever.00:54:57.135 --> 00:55:02.164


Whatever needs to be done God, lucky men, lucky men out there, she can clean the house.00:55:02.164 --> 00:55:03.204


No, I don't do that.00:55:03.289 --> 00:55:05.518


Be well prepared to present herself when I get home.00:55:05.851 --> 00:55:25.076


Yes, just so everyone knows there's a lot of jokes that happen in our family about how amazing the men are, Because generally speaking, the women in our relationships generally have bigger dicks than the men do anyway, but it's super fun to be able to watch, to talk to our parents about those things Because, like I said, my mom perceived herself as letting us down and that's definitely not.00:55:25.076 --> 00:55:25.958


That was not the case at all.00:55:25.958 --> 00:55:34.715


So it'll be fun to see, as we get older, what we see as our um, inadequacies or whatever with parenting that our children don't perceive as that and they see something different.00:55:34.715 --> 00:55:38.510


Yeah, but to raise our children, I really enjoy parenting.00:55:38.510 --> 00:55:39.673


I think it's super fun.00:55:39.673 --> 00:55:41.036


It's never the same.00:55:41.878 --> 00:55:50.920


But if we can raise all four of our kids to be individuals and themselves, which that's turning out they're all pretty individual.00:55:52.233 --> 00:55:53.115


Yeah, but you know what I think?00:55:53.115 --> 00:55:53.978


That's the success.00:55:54.431 --> 00:56:04.880


You know I was yesterday, so today is my baby's 18th birthday and I do not have minor children anymore which I have been a mom my entire life.00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:16.436


I had Brittany when I was barely 19, and so I have literally been a mom my entire adult life, and yesterday I opened his senior pictures and tears just started running down my face, but I thought of exactly what you're talking about.00:56:16.436 --> 00:56:30.878


Right now I have three children who march to the beat of their own drummer, who are their own individuals, who are amazing, who speak their truth, who stand up for themselves, who know what they believe in and aren't afraid to question.00:56:32.222 --> 00:56:32.603


That's it.00:56:32.889 --> 00:56:54.295


And their drums all harmonize really well together, absolutely, because they're all individual, but their sibling bond is so cool it is and family is everything to me and, like your mom was saying, as far as like feeling like you work too hard or whatever, I think we all do what we think is the best in that moment and I'm just I'm I'm honored and proud to have them around and watching you guys raise your kids.00:56:54.295 --> 00:57:02.577


I tell this to people all the time you have there's a very limited group of children that I'm willing to be around, because children are horrible.00:57:02.577 --> 00:57:03.918


Let's just be honest I hate children.00:57:04.179 --> 00:57:04.760


And I disagree.00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:06.384


I'll take all the answers Exactly exactly.00:57:06.730 --> 00:57:08.416


Yeah, caitlin, they can all go to her.00:57:08.416 --> 00:57:14.219


But I think parents nowadays are doing a bang-up job and so I'm not interested in being around most people's children.00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:22.992


But I look at your guys' kids and I've never been more proud because you are know, more proud because you are.00:57:22.992 --> 00:57:32.711


You, you talk with them, you encourage them to be themselves, you don't just let them keep their heads in phones and not be plugged into the world around them and and to me I just think that's so incredibly important in raising capable human beings, that's what we're trying to do.00:57:32.711 --> 00:57:40.739


Is you're trying to raise your children to be capable to handle the world that's out there, not take all of the hard stuff away from them so that they don't have to do that.00:57:41.161 --> 00:57:49.259


And as the older girls have gotten older and they've all been in the same school K through 12, so they've had the same scenario the whole time.00:57:49.259 --> 00:58:05.701


But for them to talk about some of their interactions with some of the other parents that they've known their entire lives, that they have memories of, and to see the differences in how other parents interact with each other and their children, has been very eye-opening.00:58:05.701 --> 00:58:17.259


Like some of the girls' friends, I mean it's amazing when they say your parents still like each other, yeah, and like that doesn't occur to us, right, like You're just living it.00:58:17.259 --> 00:58:19.443


We're just living it, yeah, and it's pretty awesome, yeah.00:58:19.690 --> 00:58:21.637


Who was it after the basketball game at CU.00:58:26.672 --> 00:58:27.695


One of the girls as friends.00:58:27.695 --> 00:58:31.648


Yeah, we were leaving and we were holding hands and laughing and doing whatever, and two of the girls told um elizabeth, like I wish my parents still liked each other.00:58:31.648 --> 00:58:33.693


Yeah, like that's heartbreaking.00:58:33.873 --> 00:58:34.536


It is heartbreaking.00:58:34.536 --> 00:58:42.358


I was talking to wiley last night, uh, and and said do your friends have relationships with their parents like this?00:58:42.358 --> 00:58:49.197


Because the stuff that we were talking with Wiley about was it's always deep, important stuff, right, we talk about all the things.00:58:49.197 --> 00:58:51.197


And he said not even close.00:58:51.197 --> 00:58:52.655


Not even close.00:58:52.655 --> 00:58:57.838


His friends do not have relationships with their parents where they're willing to talk about anything.00:58:58.471 --> 00:59:07.369


And I just I think that's a shame and I hope they have other adults in their life that they are willing to because, we have like, like you mentioned, our friend group is amazing.00:59:07.429 --> 00:59:21.501


If something were to happen to our girls and I didn't answer my phone because I didn't know where it was, because I don't have the time and brennan was busy, there's 10 other people that they could call and they would be there that fast because they are willing to share of themselves with them and vice versa.00:59:21.501 --> 00:59:22.884


It is so cool.00:59:22.884 --> 00:59:25.418


It takes a village and our village is pretty fucking amazing.00:59:25.538 --> 00:59:26.159


I agree with that.00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.177


I agree with that and I think that's awesome as well.00:59:28.177 --> 00:59:30.775


All right, you guys.00:59:30.775 --> 00:59:32.436


God, this has been a lot of fun.00:59:32.436 --> 00:59:37.041


Thank you for coming on and being willing to share all of the things.00:59:37.041 --> 00:59:40.050


Amy's all too happy to share all of the stories about.00:59:40.311 --> 00:59:41.597


I've got like eight more hours.00:59:48.190 --> 00:59:50.257


Eight more hours of stories about you shitty children and what that scar left on her.00:59:50.277 --> 00:59:51.202


Well, maybe you should see someone about that.00:59:51.202 --> 00:59:51.483


Just tell us.00:59:51.483 --> 00:59:52.827


Just tell us all I'm ready whenever.00:59:52.827 --> 00:59:55.253


I'll just take good notes and and we'll share it later.00:59:55.253 --> 01:00:01.103


Just record it and love it you're the herdman herder.01:00:01.690 --> 01:00:02.853


Yeah, all right.01:00:02.853 --> 01:00:05.721


Well, uh, I I forgot my notes today, everyone.01:00:05.721 --> 01:00:06.731


So just we're.01:00:06.731 --> 01:00:07.873


We've been wang chunging it.01:00:07.873 --> 01:00:09.818


So, uh, we're at the end of our time.01:00:09.818 --> 01:00:12.170


Uh, do all the things I you know.01:00:12.552 --> 01:00:16.240


Email address is ladies at if you're offended by this, fuck off right.01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:19.501


All the, yeah, thank god, we have brennan here to do the public service announcement.01:00:19.501 --> 01:00:35.335


Uh, ladies at, I shouldn't even give the email address after you say shit like that, ladies at letsgetnakedpodcastcom, and we'll forward those right along to Brennan, please make sure to rate, review, share, do all the things.01:00:35.335 --> 01:00:37.134


And again, thank you guys.01:00:37.134 --> 01:00:37.956


I appreciate your time.01:00:37.956 --> 01:00:38.378


Thanks for having us.01:00:38.398 --> 01:00:38.659


That's a wrap.01:00:38.659 --> 01:00:39.181


Thanks for having us.01:00:39.201 --> 01:00:39.382


Thank you.01:00:39.402 --> 01:00:40.304


Yeah, that's a wrap.01:00:40.304 --> 01:00:49.304


I'd love to help you get vulnerable.01:00:49.304 --> 01:00:50.385


Let's get naked.