Parenting Challenges in Modern Times

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I'd love to help you get vulnerable.

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Let's get naked.

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Welcome to the let's Get Naked podcast.

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Today we are getting naked with my husband, cameron, and his best friend on the planet, les, which feels very uncomfortable and also maybe not like the first time, obviously kidding.

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So today I wanted to talk with you guys about your friendship, your relationship, the evolution of that.

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For those at home that don't know these guys, they have been friends since they were born their dads no.

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Correct me They've been friends since he was born.

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That's true.

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He was born first Got it.

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Let's make sure we clarify that.

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So their dads were friends since kindergarten.

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Do I have that right?

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Okay, which is a fun dynamic, I think Fun maybe not the right word, but so I wanted to kind of talk about what that looked like and what your guys's relationship looks like now.

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I find it fascinating that you both have sons of your own, that I find that dynamic to be fun and fascinating for what you're taking into raising them and what that looks like.

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So, yeah, let's dive in.

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People have heard a little bit about Cameron already, so for Les, maybe you can tell us a little bit about you.

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Know your upbringing.

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You know family of origin, your folks.

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Are you a sibling only, child Only?

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child.

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My old man is a second generation phoenician.

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His grandpa, his dad, my grandpa, is from phoenix.

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I'm third generation phoenician.

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I still own the house that I grew up in, born and raised in Phoenix, grew up here, own child, I think.

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Origin goes back great-grandfather was a migrant from Germany to Mexico and my great-grandmother or great-great-grandmother was Mexican, didn't speak English, and her husband spoke German.

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So those stories on my dad's side are pretty interesting.

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So on my mom's side, my mom's from Pennsylvania, she moved here when they were young.

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She has five sisters.

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We think we're Serbian.

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We think we're from the Middle East somewhere.

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We always thought we were Polish, but we did one of those, or someone in the family did it 23andMe or something, yeah, something like that.

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And I think we're Serbian or some sort of Slovakian.

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Okay, on my mom's side.

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How old were your folks when they had you Were they young, 30, 31, I think.

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Okay, so early 30s.

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Yeah, yeah okay.

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Did you like being an only child?

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Did you wish that you had siblings?

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I wish that I had siblings?

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uh, I think I remember.

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Yeah, I always was envious of my friends who had brothers and sisters can't always envious of.

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Like cameron had a big brother, and when we got older, cameron's brother was a marine like we we looked up to him back then we looked up to him.

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Yeah, I mean, he was a fucking marine right, he's a badass, yeah yeah, uh, he had brothers and sisters.

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Um, I was envious of of some of my friends that had there's a whole different dynamic with being, I think, from a bigger family.

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Right, I was one of five and we were always the house that had all of the activity you know, and I remember having friends that were only children and they always were around, because at your house it's just your folks and you and you know no other activity for stuff.

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I get that from my cousin.

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My cousin said oh well, I was always envious of you, like you have to deal with this sister Right I get the other side, from some of my friends and cousins and stuff.

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Right For sure from some of my friends and cousins and stuff for sure, were your parents um, like, what was your relationship like?

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with your parents.

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Were you super hands-on, were they?

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We were the threesome, like if you look at all the photos from, we always did everything together, right, all the all the family functions.

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It was just the three of us, right?

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So, uh, yeah, we were pretty tight-knit, we were pretty close.

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Um, yeah, for the most part, yeah, I think it's an interesting dynamic because the way that we have with wiley, because of the age gap between the girls and wiley, um, we've been just the three, you know, cameron and I and wiley, for what?

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Emily's 24.

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Yeah, Six seven years Right, and so it is.

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It's kind of like the three musketeers and I think there's a very special relationship and dynamic which I find fascinating that you had that growing up and now that's how you have it with your son, who's nine.

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Yeah, there's different.

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So there's with social media and iPads and stuff.

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There is a completely different situation that I have my eyes on with my son and we have you know we swore early on that we wouldn't let him get evaporated into video games and stuff and as hard as we've tried, he's, he's into it right, he's he's he's sucked into the ipad and the, so we try really hard to limit his time on that yeah um, I'm I am struggling today with my boy to.

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so cameron and I grew up outside.

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People talk about the heat.

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Phoenix heat was never a factor until like the last five years.

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For me, right, I was outside all the time, all the time.

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Yeah, all day, every day Summer break, I was outside.

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Barefoot, running out on the blacktop.

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You know you're running down the street and whatever, just hoping that you could come across somebody that had grass in the front yard.

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Yeah, you can jump over there and cool your feet off for a minute, Like we used to do that, that's true, for sure, you know.

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Drink out of garden hoses.

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That's been sitting in the sun for fucking years.

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There's nothing that yeah, yeah I, things are different yeah times are different.

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We we face different dangers today that either we didn't face when I was a kid, when we were growing up, or we didn't, or our parents didn't care well, I don't think they knew you know I've done.

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I've done a lot of that.

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I've done a lot of that and in talking with a lot of people too, because it like, whether you think they cared or they didn't care.

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I'm going to always come from the place that they did the best that they could with what they had at the time and they just didn't know.

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I mean, the stuff that we know now is totally different.

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It's different by the time I was 10 years old.

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My son is nine, he'll be 10.

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In December I would hunt by myself.

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You know, when I was 13 years old middle school we had a house up by a lake here in Arizona, out in the desert kind of, and I could go out by myself and go bird hunting.

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I could go rabbit hunting.

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I went hunting by myself.

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At 13?

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.

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At 13 years old.

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Yeah, I would get myself up at dark, get my stuff together and walk from the house and go bird hunting right and hunt and it was completely.

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It wasn't a big deal, right, it wasn't.

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My dad trusted that I was good with my firearms what are you guys?

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Doing and I'd come back with.

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You know, I had a.

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I just couldn't see myself letting do that to me for a few different reasons.

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Um, it's just different man and and I listened to other podcast, listen to a lot of outdoor stuff, listen to a guy who grew up in arkansas and did all the same shit, right, and he has a young son and he, he's like I don't let my son do that.

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It's different today we would go.

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When I was a senior in high school we had it was like I can't remember how many periods in a day but the first two periods, the first three periods, a buddy of mine and I didn't have class and we would drive out to a local river and we would hunt ducks.

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We would try to shoot some ducks, kill some ducks, drive back to school with our pockets full of shotgun shells and our shotguns in the truck and go to class right and the principal at the time would be like do you guys kill any birds?

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like he knew what you were doing.

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We got shot up with a gun on the could you imagine doing that?

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could you imagine pulling into the parking lot of a high school and trying to explain that you have shotguns in your truck or what were?

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you just yeah, what were you doing?

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it wasn't.

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How many years ago was that for you?

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high school 30 30 years, 30 years ago what?

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what are the things like?

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So you say I would never let do that.

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Now, obviously, dynamics are different, just with the infill of the of, you know yeah outdoor space isn't close to where you live and whatever, but what are the biggest things that you're like?

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There's no way I would do that, because why?

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Like what are the things that would prevent you from letting me do that Other people right the dangers of yeah, but do you not think those other people were out there before?

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I just don't think they were.

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Really no, we're 10 times we're so more populated now than we were in Arizona.

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There's so many more people here.

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I just feel like there's more dangers just with human beings than there was when I was 13 years old.

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I live on a street that, when my dad was growing up, was where you went to hunt.

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There was no houses there and I've seen it just in my lifetime, growing up here, how the sprawl of the valley of the people.

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No, I don't believe that those dangers were not like they are now.

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Yeah, I think that's true, just based on volume For sure.

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You know, I don't think that people are inherently worse than they were back then.

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I just think we know a lot of stuff now.

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Right, the information exchange is on steroids, because you can put everything out there about, like probably the guy that lived down the street, the creepy guy at the end of the street when you were growing up, probably was a pedophile you just didn't know it because they didn't have all of these things.

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He didn't have the red dot around your house.

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Exactly right.

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So I mean that changes, but then also just the sheer volume of people that are here that's what I mean.

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That's what I'm saying.

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It's just if one in a thousand is a predator, and there's a hundred thousand, you know then there's a hundred of them around.

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Yeah, ten times millions of people, then there's thousands of them, yeah, so it's just a just a function of it is.

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I agree it is, it's just different well, and the other thing that's scary to me is you know when you're, when you're talking about growing up, and you had the freedom that you had and, obviously, the different dangers that you were looking out for or whatever.

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Now we give these kids these computers that are as powerful as the richest man in the world carries in his pocket right, and then it's like here you can go whatever.

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This is a dangerous situation.

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Now these dangerous people have direct access to your child and I don't care what anybody says about oh we put these parental controls and whatever Bullshit.

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When we were raising Emily, I literally felt like we were throwing her to the wolves, because it was like I've got this phone, I know how to use it and she could I mean, she could get into whatever trouble she wanted to, you know.

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And so for me it's like I know that we're moving and I'm not going to be one of those old people who's like, oh, I wish we could go back to whatever time it was.

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But at the same time it was a lot more simple, you know, for kids to really be able to be kids instead of you know, sitting down and having conversations with your kids.

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Do you have conversations, with this point, about the dangers of people that are out there?

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Are those conversations you're having at this age?

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A little bit, not too much.

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Are those conversations you're having at this age A little bit not too much?

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So he goes to a charter school and we're in a world now where we've experienced school shootings.

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I don't ever remember those.

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When I was younger, I don't remember those being a thing.

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I remember, you know.

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I remember the occasional bomb threat prank when I was, when I was in kindergarten, first grade.

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There were still air raid sirens, nuclear war, air raid sirens, but that didn't last long.

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God, you are old, yeah.

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Yep, the siren would go off every Saturday at noon as a test or something.

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Yep.

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And but not, you know, not like that.

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And there was we had a couple of false alarms that had been at school and it scared the shit out of him.

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So I got to talk to him and he starts asking you know, dad, has anything like that ever happened in Arizona?

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You know what?

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happened.

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He got into some details about about what he was.

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You know what he heard when the false alarm at school.

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Enough, he's like I could heard p.

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I could hear people talking outside the door.

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I thought they were right there and I was like oh, fuck so that's scary.

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Those are the talks I'm having with them, which is bizarre but important.

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Oh, yeah, yeah what do you do?

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I?

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I try to tell them you gotta follow the rules.

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I tell them you gotta be tough like you gotta be, bold, you gotta be strong you gotta you gotta.

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You gotta channel that fear if something like that happens.

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Dude, you gotta right.

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So do you?

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Are you at the age with him where you talk about other adults being the predator?

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not too much.

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I do it in a roundabout way, without being direct about it, paying attention to where he's at and who he's with.

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I do have talks with him about more, so now just with making right decisions with the group of kids.

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He's around, yeah we know like.

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Like you, you make the right decision to say no, dude.

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There's no consequence that you should ever be going along with the crowd.

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I think he's pretty receptive.

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I think he's pretty good about that I think one of the most important things that we told Wiley is just really being comfortable with who he is and trusting his gut and not letting other people pressure him into doing things that he wasn't right.

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You know and we really hammered that in Also that, coupled with the no meth, no heroin, no exceptions, which I you know has kept, Emily on this side of the grass more times than I can tell you, right, because we said those hard things from the time that they were very young.

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I mean, I hammered that into the girls from the time they were age and younger, because they just you need to remember that kind of shit when you're actually put into a position where people are putting shit in their arms.

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You know what I mean.

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Because, Emily has been in those situations and it scares the shit out of me, but it's that kind of stuff.

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You know, I saw an Instagram post the other day and it blew my mind, but it really impressed me because it was this mom who was talking to her young son and it was talking about the five things that you should be having conversation with your kids about, regardless, right, and it was talking about what your private parts are named, so that we're all on the same page.

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There's no shame associated with that?

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There's no whatever.

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Also, like all on the same page, there's no shame associated with that.

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There's no whatever.

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Also, like who's allowed to to be in your personal space and touch you?

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What is a safe secret?

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What is not a safe secret?

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You know what I mean.

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What are you trusting?

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What your gut says?

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And if someone tells you, don't tell mommy and daddy, knowing that that's every.

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Every hair on the back of your neck should be standing up and that's a go to mom right away.

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But those are the kind of things that we didn't learn when we were younger.

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Obviously it's a little bit different for boys than it is for girls, but we should be telling our five-year-old girls that shit.

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You know what I mean, because they should know that you know we're going to be protecting you and here's what to do.

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That's the only complaint I ever had about growing up.

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My aunties and my mom didn't tell me that kind of stuff you know.

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So it's like telling boys to trust their gut, to know that there's.

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You know these differences between safe secrets and not safe secrets.

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The lady was saying consent.

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It must've been a boy, because it was teaching the difference between consent and how important that is.

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You know we've talked about different things where girls don't have a voice a lot of times.

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Now you guys can't understand it.

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I've talked to Cameron a lot about it.

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He's like how could you, how would a girl not say no?

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I'm like you have no idea.

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I mean, it's just a whole different thing.

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But I've talked to men now on the other side of that who know when they were younger that they were doing something that a girl didn't want and kept doing it because she didn't say no, Right.

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So really like letting our young people know that consent is important and like just teaching kids the things that our parents never taught us and I I believe it's because they didn't know right, if we know better, we can do better you know, and you know those things change as time goes by is also the uh, I think the.

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I think the predator base gets more sophisticated as we go along.

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Also, you know, I went to uh, I went to a catholic high school and I was surrounded by predators, and you know, and, and, and and you know there's all the jokes in the world about it or whatever, but there's also the reality there that there's a reason.

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There's jokes, right?

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That?

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that that that stuff does happen, right, and so, even though you know we were, we were told that you gotta be careful, you gotta be on the lookout or whatever.

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You know you still don't see them.

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You know it came out, there's one of the one of my high school math teacher.

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He's in, he's in jail right now for, you know, for being, for being a predator.

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Cameron was telling me about being groomed as a young boy there.

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Yeah, and so it was.

00:17:18.825 --> 00:17:49.416
so, even though you're on the lookout, you still don't see them no-transcript to be cognizant of his surroundings, which is which is huge, especially in this digital age, do this shit that I did when I was, you know, not letting him do so much stuff by himself, yeah, but also like teaching him to be cognizant of that and be aware of that, because I look at that and that's you know we go out to to a restaurant.

00:17:49.718 --> 00:17:56.157
I'm not paying attention to anything that's happening because I know that this guy is you know what I I mean I know that Cameron understands where the X's are.

00:17:56.405 --> 00:17:58.574
If something's going to happen and go down, where is that going to be?

00:17:58.574 --> 00:18:00.590
Where are we going to position ourselves to be Whatever?

00:18:00.590 --> 00:18:05.384
He knows that I don't at all, but I do that intentionally because I know that he's got that covered right.

00:18:05.384 --> 00:18:12.257
But teaching kids as they're growing up to be cognizant of their surroundings, teaching our girls you're going out to a dark parking lot, pay it.

00:18:12.257 --> 00:18:13.637
You know what I mean Do X, y, z.

00:18:13.637 --> 00:18:18.941
So I just think there needs to be more resources to get that kind of information to parents of younger kids about.

00:18:18.941 --> 00:18:20.260
Here's the appropriate way.

00:18:20.260 --> 00:18:21.241
That's age appropriate.

00:18:21.241 --> 00:18:24.828
To talk to a nine-year-old about what does a predator look like?

00:18:24.888 --> 00:18:30.029
Because you would be sick to your stomach if you knew that someone was grooming your child at school and he didn't know what to look for?

00:18:30.029 --> 00:18:34.980
Do you know what I mean when Cameron's talking about that, about his math teacher being in jail, and I'm like, did you know?

00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:49.087
And then we're talking about different things, right, because I was raised Catholic as well and I think that might be the largest group of a population in America is people who used to be Catholic and who are no longer Catholic, which should tell you everything you need to know about what we should do with the Catholic church.

00:18:49.087 --> 00:18:50.348
But I'm not going to get into that.

00:18:50.348 --> 00:18:59.540
But he, you know he's telling stories about thinking about after the fact with that guy, where that guy was inviting him over the whole sneakers and a Coke, I mean shit like that.

00:18:59.905 --> 00:19:00.769
The sneakers and a Coke.

00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:01.932
That was just a priest thing.

00:19:01.932 --> 00:19:02.334
I am not.

00:19:02.334 --> 00:19:04.092
That was one of the lay people, Okay.

00:19:06.825 --> 00:19:10.448
But anyways, you guys understand like and you didn't know that back then.

00:19:10.448 --> 00:19:20.415
It would have been lovely information had you had that, because then you could have gone to your parent and said like, hey, I'm pretty sure this guy's a creep which maybe would have saved whoever else had to deal with that shit.

00:19:20.816 --> 00:19:22.497
You know, I mean you talk about you?

00:19:22.517 --> 00:19:23.939
talk about fucking up a human being.

00:19:23.939 --> 00:19:28.582
I think girls can handle being molested and fucked with a lot more than men can.

00:19:28.582 --> 00:19:34.375
I've seen some men that are not great.

00:19:34.375 --> 00:19:35.719
You know, that's a whole face tattoo a big truck.

00:19:35.739 --> 00:20:05.125
you know it's especially tough nowadays because, like we talk about the, the social media exposure for kids and the electronic component and everything else right and then, and then you throw in the now we've got to be on the lookout for, for other predators and other people that are trying to take advantage and whatever, and you want to protect your kids and so you have a tendency to hold back on what you allow them to do, you know, and places you allow them to go and those types of things.

00:20:05.125 --> 00:20:21.048
And then you start to look at it and it's tough to find the balance there of like completely smothering them and you end up with a kid that didn't get the bumps and the bruises and everything else that kids are supposed to get and learn from right, and so it's even.

00:20:21.067 --> 00:20:25.538
You know, as we learn more, it's even more difficult to find that balance right.

00:20:25.538 --> 00:20:33.348
Because you can screw up a kid just as much, going the other direction by, you know, just by being overprotective for those types of things.

00:20:33.368 --> 00:20:34.530
I agree with that a thousand thousand percent.

00:20:34.530 --> 00:20:49.440
And that leads into my next question, which is you know, what do you take from what your parents did, that you wanted to transfer to your son, right, or your children, uh, and what and what did you?

00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:51.570
what happened or what things?

00:20:51.570 --> 00:20:54.522
Where you're like this is never gonna transfer to them.

00:20:54.522 --> 00:20:55.246
Do you know what I mean?

00:20:55.246 --> 00:21:03.313
Like I look at how I was raised and things that I wanted to transfer, where I was taught an excellent work ethic, right, like I'll outwork anybody, I don't give a shit.

00:21:03.313 --> 00:21:05.171
Like I'll be the first one there, last one out.

00:21:05.171 --> 00:21:08.594
Every time it doesn't hurt my feelings to do the hard thing, happy to do it, right.

00:21:08.594 --> 00:21:19.717
But there was a lot of things that I look at that were I was raised in a very organized, religion-based household, regardless of whatever one it was for.

00:21:19.717 --> 00:21:21.565
Wherever they, whatever spin the wheel they landed on for that for that year.

00:21:21.565 --> 00:21:24.090
But that fucked me up.

00:21:24.090 --> 00:21:24.832
You know what I mean.

00:21:24.832 --> 00:21:26.497
There was a lot of stuff associated with that.

00:21:26.497 --> 00:21:27.365
So I would not.

00:21:27.365 --> 00:21:28.789
I would still expose my kids to that.

00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:29.010
Right.

00:21:29.010 --> 00:21:31.906
Like Wiley wants to go to church sometimes, I'll take him to church.

00:21:32.007 --> 00:21:38.746
I want my kids to be exposed to whatever, and then you get to pick what resonates with you, which is, I think, an important way to raise children instead of like.

00:21:38.746 --> 00:21:51.007
This is how I believe you have to believe this same way, because how my parents raised me did not resonate with me at all, and it literally felt like just going against every grain of my body that you know that I knew.

00:21:51.007 --> 00:22:01.526
So what are some examples of things that your parents taught you that you thought I really want to carry this on and teach my kid that, or or things that you're like this isn't going that way.

00:22:01.526 --> 00:22:02.950
Is there anything that jumps out at you?

00:22:03.351 --> 00:22:04.895
No fistfights in the living room.

00:22:08.685 --> 00:22:09.930
Did you and your dad fight physically?

00:22:10.411 --> 00:22:10.872
Is that a thing?

00:22:10.872 --> 00:22:11.473
Yeah?

00:22:11.755 --> 00:22:12.236
From what age?

00:22:12.964 --> 00:22:13.968
Oh, as a teenager.

00:22:14.189 --> 00:22:15.673
Yeah, because you were an asshole.

00:22:15.673 --> 00:22:19.265
Yeah yeah, my mom hit me one time across the.

00:22:19.305 --> 00:22:20.457
Maybe he was an asshole too.

00:22:20.457 --> 00:22:22.611
Well, it could be right, but here's the whole thing.

00:22:22.785 --> 00:22:25.714
Here's the whole thing, and I explained this to Cameron when the girls were teenagers.

00:22:25.714 --> 00:22:28.693
Right, I'm trying to explain it to him because I had a really hard time with that.

00:22:28.693 --> 00:22:36.987
I household the entire time.

00:22:36.987 --> 00:22:37.730
I have a very big personality.

00:22:37.730 --> 00:22:45.520
I now have adult-sized human beings that are on my turf, challenging me, right, and what I'm supposed to do is love them unconditionally and what I want to do is pound them into the fucking ground for sure you know.

00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:50.757
So that's probably the same situation with your dad as far as that's concerned, because you mouth off and teenagers suck.

00:22:50.904 --> 00:22:52.646
I mean they just suck, yeah.

00:22:52.646 --> 00:22:55.509
So I think a lot of it for me.

00:22:55.509 --> 00:23:04.942
Right now specifically, we're getting in the period where my son is really we're going to hopefully spend a lot of time outdoors.

00:23:04.942 --> 00:23:12.337
So many lessons can be taught around the outdoors, right.

00:23:12.337 --> 00:23:16.573
So many things about ethics and around hunting and fishing.

00:23:16.573 --> 00:23:21.048
Um, there's a lot of responsibility out there.

00:23:21.048 --> 00:23:22.531
There's a lot of freedom out there.

00:23:22.531 --> 00:23:26.689
Teaching my son that my dad kind of gave that to me a little bit.

00:23:27.411 --> 00:23:53.952
Uh, that is one of the great things that my old man did, right hunting and fishing and and how to act out there you know, when you're out in the middle of nowhere um and no one's looking, you can do whatever the fuck you want, but you're doing the right thing right like that's how you learn integrity, that's how you learn yeah those are the those are the things that I'll pass on to my son, right in manner.

00:23:53.952 --> 00:23:57.278
And he may not be into the type of hunting.

00:23:57.278 --> 00:24:05.474
He may not be into it the way I am into it, but outdoors in general I think is such a great classroom.

00:24:05.474 --> 00:24:08.510
There's so much there.

00:24:08.711 --> 00:24:10.290
I agree with that and I also think too.

00:24:10.290 --> 00:24:14.765
It just gives you the time where it shuts the rest of the world out, so that you guys can have really important conversations.

00:24:14.765 --> 00:24:28.087
I don't even know that you realize, like I don't think you guys even go into it, like I'm going to have this important conversation, it just happens right, because they ask a question and you're willing to be vulnerable and talk with them about the different stuff and what your experiences were.

00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:41.026
Um, you know, is there something that you have, cameron, that's like with Wiley, where you felt like you know there was a big teaching moment or something where you felt like you were really vulnerable to him about sharing your story or your experience?

00:24:41.026 --> 00:24:42.530
Have you talked to him about the Catholic priest?

00:24:42.530 --> 00:24:52.175
That maybe was a good one to have before we sent him to Catholic school, but one snicker is a complete ripoff hold out for you can't even order a can of Pepsi.

00:24:52.215 --> 00:24:54.798
You're not doing it right?

00:24:54.798 --> 00:25:00.664
Yeah, no, you know, for me it's interesting.

00:25:01.686 --> 00:25:20.676
The perspective is interesting because now you know Wiley's older, he's going to be a real adult, like an 18-year-old, real adult in a couple of months year old, real adult in a couple of months and and for me it's it was never so much uh, to have a plan of of what to do.

00:25:20.676 --> 00:25:39.656
It was, um, I, I, since Wiley was little, I've always, um, I've always, you know, told myself hey, it doesn't matter how, how difficult the circumstances are or how amazing the circumstances are, just be with it and enjoy it, because you're not going to be here again.

00:25:39.656 --> 00:25:42.032
Right, there's not another kid coming.

00:25:42.032 --> 00:25:45.744
You know you're not going to have these opportunities ever again.

00:25:45.744 --> 00:25:51.597
So it doesn't matter whether it's a good time or a bad time or a learning time or whatever.

00:25:51.597 --> 00:25:54.314
It's the only time you're going to have that.

00:25:54.314 --> 00:25:57.647
So enjoy it for what it is, take from it what you want.

00:25:57.647 --> 00:26:00.615
You know what you can, and then, and then you know, move on.

00:26:01.196 --> 00:26:15.073
And so I didn't really spend a lot of time analyzing things from my own childhood and saying, hey, I want to do this differently, or I want to do this the same, or I want to bring these things forward.

00:26:15.073 --> 00:26:19.819
It was more of a all right, we're in the moment and we're just going to make the best of it.

00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:28.039
You know, based on my life experiences and whatever, and now, as Wiley's older.

00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:40.192
I have a unique opportunity and you'll have this at some point also where I've seen what it's like to get to adulthood where I was raised.

00:26:40.192 --> 00:26:55.595
And now I've seen what it was like to get to adulthood with how Wiley was raised, right and without, you know, trying to influence the outcome of that by things that, hey, we need to do this or we shouldn't do this.

00:26:55.724 --> 00:26:56.626
I didn't do any of that.

00:26:56.626 --> 00:27:00.436
But now I have these two perspectives and they're night and day.

00:27:00.436 --> 00:27:03.391
They're absolutely night and day different.

00:27:03.391 --> 00:27:11.477
And as I look at it and I realize you know a lot of the things from you know from my upbringing, that I just despised.

00:27:11.477 --> 00:27:20.634
I didn't bring any of those forward, I don't have any of them there, right, and the things that I look at and I think, wow, it was nice that I learned these things when I was younger.

00:27:20.634 --> 00:27:26.621
These things happened kind of on their own, organically, in that approach.

00:27:27.884 --> 00:27:29.365
Without having to think about it, without having to think about it, right.

00:27:30.205 --> 00:27:33.355
It's just ingrained, right, and it just comes out, right.

00:27:33.355 --> 00:27:38.394
You don't even have to do it consciously, right, as long as you're there and you're doing.

00:27:38.394 --> 00:27:51.030
If you're in the moment and you're doing what you think you're supposed to be doing, all that good stuff's coming out right it's going to be there yeah it's kind of interesting yeah, I think you can definitely over correct for stuff if you're doing it intentionally.

00:27:51.051 --> 00:28:22.372
And I think I did that with the girls thousand percent um in the in the money thing and I didn't want them to ever want for anything and so I always gave them whatever they wanted when they were younger, um, because I didn't have that talk to him about that just the other day yeah so, yeah, my son doesn't know what it's like to fish from the shoreline or fish yeah right, you're fishing out a hundred thousand and you know bass boats and shit right, a fucking boat that's leaking, that you got to bail the water out of the bottom Right

00:28:22.432 --> 00:28:23.915
right, wiley's done that.

00:28:25.664 --> 00:28:27.311
Well, and there's good shit that comes from that.

00:28:27.332 --> 00:28:28.690
You know there is and that's what I said.

00:28:28.690 --> 00:28:32.871
I said that's too bad because there's some it is Not to mention, there's some adventures.

00:28:32.911 --> 00:28:40.685
Yeah, well, I think also, like as parents, we want to take away any of the pain that the kids have or any of the struggle, and that's not the right thing to do, you know.

00:28:40.685 --> 00:28:43.575
It's the easier thing to do because you don't want to be able to watch.

00:28:43.575 --> 00:28:57.282
And Cameron did a great thing for me several years ago where I was having a hard time watching Emily struggle, you know and I wanted to go in and fix it because that was my mo and I was trying to be better about that because I knew better, um, and and I said it's just so hard to watch.

00:28:57.343 --> 00:29:02.232
And he said then look the other way you know, and that was a really hard thing, but I I still I.

00:29:02.232 --> 00:29:06.959
That resonated with me, that landed with me so hard, because it's like our kids are supposed to struggle.

00:29:06.959 --> 00:29:13.390
You know, if you think about a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, if you go over and you cut the caterpillar out, it's never going to be a butterfly the right way.

00:29:13.390 --> 00:29:15.451
And it's the same thing Like we're supposed to struggle.

00:29:15.451 --> 00:29:18.295
We're supposed to drive shitty old cars that break down.

00:29:18.295 --> 00:29:21.637
You know Emily driving that big boat, where she was, like it broke down.

00:29:21.637 --> 00:29:23.278
I don't know what to do and she had all of this stuff.

00:29:23.278 --> 00:29:24.500
But yeah, but that teaches you.

00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:26.041
You know how to be resourceful.

00:29:26.041 --> 00:29:33.615
You know learning how to getting a car and you wouldn't be able to drive it.

00:29:33.615 --> 00:29:35.579
I'm trying to, you know, raise capable kids.

00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:37.984
So, yeah, I didn't do everything right.

00:29:37.984 --> 00:29:38.425
Every one of our kids.

00:29:38.425 --> 00:29:41.035
Their first car was a stick shift Absolutely Mine was.

00:29:41.035 --> 00:29:44.932
You have to do that and all their friends were like oh, that's lame and whatever.

00:29:44.932 --> 00:29:56.034
And the kids hated it at the beginning and now they're like we're badasses because we can do all and the funny thing about it is, though you know they could leave the keys in their car in the parking lot if the high school was never going to get stolen.

00:29:56.114 --> 00:29:59.396
Safe, yeah, no one's getting in and doing that, none of those kids know how to drive them.

00:29:59.396 --> 00:30:05.622
My boy's nine, so his struggles aren't of that capacity yet.

00:30:05.622 --> 00:30:11.195
Yeah, yeah, we try to make him do his own stuff, right?

00:30:12.258 --> 00:30:17.490
Yeah, we try not to do simple things around the house.

00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:17.952
Well, you don't want to.

00:30:17.952 --> 00:30:18.556
You don't want to push these.

00:30:18.556 --> 00:30:19.642
You know why he's going to be 18 in january.

00:30:19.642 --> 00:30:25.727
You don't want to push these full-size grown adults out into the world with no capabilities of being able to handle their own stuff.

00:30:25.727 --> 00:30:33.790
You know if you're still doing their laundry and waking them up in the morning and and you know doing all these things to hold them accountable they're going to fall flat on their face as soon as they go off to college.

00:30:34.372 --> 00:30:40.238
You know, yeah, what does emotional intelligence mean to you.

00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:42.161
I don't know, what that means.

00:30:45.006 --> 00:30:45.467
What does?

00:30:45.688 --> 00:30:50.903
emotional intelligence mean to you.

00:30:50.903 --> 00:31:04.998
So I'm going to say emotional intelligence to me is being aware of things that you feel right, but combined with um using those powers for good right.

00:31:04.998 --> 00:31:05.920
So you it's.

00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:14.278
It's one thing to feel right, but it's another thing to be able to harness that and make something positive out of it, right?

00:31:14.278 --> 00:31:14.907
Make something useful out of it.

00:31:14.907 --> 00:31:16.019
Right, that's Make something useful out of it right.

00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:23.040
That's where the intelligence to me comes in is being able to navigate, knowing that, hey, this is how I feel about this, or whatever.

00:31:23.224 --> 00:31:24.308
And what am I going to do with it?

00:31:24.308 --> 00:31:30.674
Yeah, for sure, interesting, I think, if you've never heard that term before.

00:31:30.674 --> 00:31:41.875
Right, that's a great definition of what that is, cameron, as far as just understanding what it is that you're feeling, somebody's been teaching me oh how lovely.

00:31:41.875 --> 00:31:44.970
I told Les I was like we should get together for just an hour a week.

00:31:44.970 --> 00:31:46.535
He's like what are you into fucking therapy now?

00:31:46.535 --> 00:31:50.518
I'm like I'm, it's just a suggestion Cameron has been benefiting from.

00:31:50.518 --> 00:31:51.623
No, I know he did.

00:31:51.803 --> 00:32:02.537
It was a quick and hard no, I don't understand so weird's, like I get it enough through Cameron it's fine, but no, but I think that's something that I never was taught right.

00:32:02.585 --> 00:32:04.772
I don't think that that's something that a lot of parents teach.

00:32:04.772 --> 00:32:14.815
I look at it now and I think in teaching Wiley right, wiley has had a front row seat to all of my garbage from getting sober and like really doing all of this work on myself and whatever.

00:32:14.815 --> 00:32:23.901
But I will say that Wiley is the most emotionally intelligent human being that I know in his age bracket or anywhere close right, because he's seen all of the things.

00:32:23.901 --> 00:32:28.777
He knows how to process things he's not ashamed about if he's feeling hurt about something or if he's embarrassed.

00:32:28.777 --> 00:32:47.997
You know, when he came home from starting school at the new school and he was like humbled by that but also very vulnerable to just share how that made him feel and that it was, you know, like he really felt insecure in that moment that's good, that's brilliant, that's a craft it is to get that out of your son or daughter, is it?

00:32:48.178 --> 00:32:48.919
is it?

00:32:49.019 --> 00:33:00.237
is, but I think I think we really should focus more on on raising our children that way, as well as figuring that out for ourselves, because I've seen grown men who have zero emotional intelligence because they weren't raised that way.

00:33:00.237 --> 00:33:08.054
Men, in our society and in our age, brackets were taught to don't be a pussy, right, and if you're crying, I'll give you something to cry about.

00:33:08.054 --> 00:33:09.310
Well, you already have something to cry about.

00:33:09.310 --> 00:33:13.333
That's why you're fucking crying, right, and I mean no, no, no, listen.

00:33:17.208 --> 00:33:28.317
Okay, so we're gonna work on this guy, if you, if less if you realize that you are actually hindering your son by not teaching him that stuff and by not learning that, I don't teach my son that's but that you should do.

00:33:28.317 --> 00:33:30.068
You know what I'm saying no thousand percent.

00:33:30.088 --> 00:33:32.375
Oh, teach my stuff, emotional intelligence.

00:33:32.375 --> 00:33:48.898
No, no, I do teach my son, you're like I don't teach my son you have a headache right when you smash your toe, exactly your head doesn't hurt anymore does it you're fine, that was my dad yeah, he'll only pull the tv on him, over on himself one time.

00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.230
Right, and I think there's a balance between that.

00:33:51.230 --> 00:33:57.153
Right, because you still want your children to be self-sufficient and not be like just whiners and criers, and I totally understand that.

00:33:57.153 --> 00:34:02.993
But you know I look at how men were raised that all they know how to do is turn it into anger and rage.

00:34:02.993 --> 00:34:11.764
Every emotion, fear, sadness, whatever, anger and rage all of you big truck drivers with your fucking face tattoos and the other stupid.

00:34:11.784 --> 00:34:13.389
Know that it reads I'm damaged and broken inside okay, from the outside.

00:34:13.389 --> 00:34:13.590
Know shit.

00:34:13.590 --> 00:34:16.702
Know that it reads I'm damaged and broken inside okay, From the outside.

00:34:16.702 --> 00:34:17.909
Know that that's how it reads.

00:34:18.230 --> 00:34:21.463
So if you knew that I don't have any neck tattoos, I know you don't I don't have any tattoos.

00:34:21.483 --> 00:34:39.485
I know, but in knowing that right and understanding the value of that as an adult, because grown men don't do that now and it affects your business, it affects your relationship, it affects, it affects all the things, because somebody does something.

00:34:39.485 --> 00:34:39.893
It triggers you.

00:34:39.893 --> 00:34:40.675
You don't know how to handle whatever that emotion is.

00:34:40.675 --> 00:34:43.389
You probably don't even know how to identify what that emotion is that made you feel that way, and then you come back with anger or rage.

00:34:43.389 --> 00:34:51.831
You know, I was telling Cameron, when you're defensive which I think most men are not that that's generalizing and I'm going to do it anyways, because I think we weren't raised with intelligence about that.

00:34:52.211 --> 00:34:53.353
That's just like a blanket trigger.

00:34:53.353 --> 00:35:04.670
You literally just have like a blanket trigger over yourself that if somebody says something the wrong way or cuts you off or does something that's wrong, you don't know how to handle it, you don't know how to process it, and so it just it's not a good look, right.

00:35:04.670 --> 00:35:07.425
So how are we, what are we doing to fix that in ourselves?

00:35:07.425 --> 00:35:17.340
And what are we doing to then teach our children that Because they're not going to teach our children that in schools, you know, they're not going to teach our children that in their friend groups those poor kids were feeding them to the, to the wolves.

00:35:17.539 --> 00:35:30.630
When we send them off in their friend groups, know that I read some stuff and watch some videos and I the start is like getting your son to talk about what happened at school yes you don't go right to his face and say what happened in school.

00:35:30.650 --> 00:35:36.614
You got to be covert about it and, yes, make him feel comfortable yeah, anything exciting.

00:35:36.634 --> 00:35:37.525
Hey, what happened?

00:35:37.525 --> 00:35:39.210
To the remember you had the caterpillar.

00:35:39.210 --> 00:35:41.817
You I'm learning how to be covert about it.

00:35:41.817 --> 00:35:58.065
And then, the next thing you know, he's telling me everything about his day and then he's selling you stuff, like I was sitting by myself because this kid was and I was like well, I mean, learn those lessons that you learn in jiu-jitsu.

00:35:58.065 --> 00:36:04.885
And you just choke him the fuck out okay, so we'll talk to jen more about this and how that should look

00:36:05.085 --> 00:36:17.599
you know, one of the things that we did, uh, that I think um, kind of fosters that sentiment is we incentivized all of our kids to be honest.

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.445
Right, for above all else, be honest.

00:36:20.445 --> 00:36:28.960
It doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't matter how bad something was or you know, if it was embarrassing or if there was any you know anything that was odd about.

00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:33.215
Just be honest about it, we'll deal with it, we'll do whatever you know and it that's kind of the building blocks for that.

00:36:33.215 --> 00:36:33.576
I agree with that.

00:36:33.576 --> 00:36:35.961
If you're you know, and that's kind of the building blocks for that.

00:36:36.143 --> 00:36:36.764
I agree with that.

00:36:37.306 --> 00:36:43.552
If you're honest about your actions, then your feelings get in there, and you're honest about that also, and you just build on that.

00:36:43.552 --> 00:36:48.637
But it all starts with being able to be honest and tell the truth about everything.

00:36:48.864 --> 00:36:52.489
And really fostering that Not being surprised when they say stuff.

00:36:52.489 --> 00:37:02.753
That's shocking, right, because you can't tell them be honest with me and then whack-a-mole them when they are honest with you and Emily tests me with that every day.

00:37:02.753 --> 00:37:11.574
She'll call me with something honest and I'm just like, really, that happened huh and it just blows me out of the water and I love it so much Because we did.

00:37:11.574 --> 00:37:14.447
You're absolutely right, that was a conscious effort to do that.

00:37:14.746 --> 00:37:15.248
My, because we did.

00:37:15.248 --> 00:37:18.911
You're absolutely right that was a conscious effort to do that my parents raised a liar.

00:37:18.931 --> 00:37:26.960
They raised liars all of us children, right and again, I believe that they knew that they did the best that they could and so they're going to listen to this and I'm going to get phone calls after every single episode.

00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:33.757
And I don't need that because you did the best that you could and I know that.

00:37:33.757 --> 00:37:34.983
But we were raised to be liars.

00:37:34.983 --> 00:37:35.625
I watched them as they raised.

00:37:35.625 --> 00:37:38.735
They lied to other family when we moved to Colorado and they lied about what religion we were.

00:37:38.735 --> 00:37:40.711
My sister got pregnant as a teenager.

00:37:40.711 --> 00:37:42.972
They lied to the family about whether she got pregnant.

00:37:42.972 --> 00:37:47.635
I mean all of that stuff, and to me it's like shame, guilt.

00:37:47.635 --> 00:37:55.838
This is wrapped up in all of that, but I think it does stem from just being honest and telling the truth and knowing that that's the best policy and we can handle anything.

00:37:55.985 --> 00:37:58.570
But the lies start getting and you've got to do what you say.

00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:00.836
It doesn't Be impeccable with your words.

00:38:00.836 --> 00:38:05.135
That is not lost on my family either.

00:38:05.135 --> 00:38:15.112
But it doesn't have to be that dramatic if you tell your son we're going to play wiffle ball when you get home and you don't play wiffle ball when you get home because you make like you.

00:38:15.112 --> 00:38:16.637
It's almost the same thing.

00:38:17.226 --> 00:38:19.012
No, you're right, and that's an excellent point.

00:38:19.012 --> 00:38:31.431
Also, when your son asks you to do something, you should drop what you're doing and go do it every fucking time, because your son's going to be 17 in nine months and getting ready to move out, and you're facing the loudest quiet you've ever heard in your life.

00:38:31.713 --> 00:38:42.615
I just went on a long elk hunt and he wasn't with me and I got home and I told jen and I go that's the last time that yeah, we don't go like from.

00:38:42.615 --> 00:38:54.992
I kind of was warning her like moving forward he's coming, he's not gonna be like he won't be here during that yeah, call, call school, he's coming yeah which I think is really important.

00:38:55.032 --> 00:39:00.731
You know, I look at the time that you spend with Wiley and it's neat, it's fun to watch.

00:39:00.731 --> 00:39:23.666
It's fun to watch the dynamics of that Obviously, with raising the girls, I was the primary parent in that situation and in the weeds with things and to be able to watch it from the outside and watch you foster that, which is amazing to me because I know stories about things for you growing up which were not always excellent, you know.

00:39:23.666 --> 00:39:24.789
Did you know about stuff that was going on?

00:39:24.809 --> 00:39:26.452
in Cameron's house when he was younger.

00:39:26.452 --> 00:39:32.768
Not until I was, not until we were teenagers, Not until I, no no, you never witnessed anything.

00:39:32.768 --> 00:39:43.800
No, not until we were older, Not until I saw like we were 14, 15, 16, old enough to drive, or driving right before we were old enough to drive.

00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:48.469
No, I was always envious of Cameron, right?

00:39:48.469 --> 00:39:49.974
He always had all the cool stuff.

00:39:49.974 --> 00:39:54.853
Everything seemed so incredible over there, right?

00:39:54.873 --> 00:39:55.476
Like, oh my.

00:39:55.496 --> 00:40:07.197
God, no, I didn't personally witness anything like that until I was about 14, 15.

00:40:07.197 --> 00:40:08.199
So he's right 13.

00:40:08.824 --> 00:40:10.007
And what did you witness?

00:40:10.007 --> 00:40:10.489
What happened?

00:40:10.489 --> 00:40:13.114
He's fine.

00:40:13.114 --> 00:40:15.706
He's fine, no nothing Well.

00:40:15.706 --> 00:40:20.637
No, I mean, here's the whole thing, this is about being vulnerable and if you, if we can't say here's the shit that happens.

00:40:20.657 --> 00:40:38.981
When I was 15 years old, I went to work uh, one summer for his dad at his dad's company and then, um, that was the first time I'd ever seen his old man, not in a friendly like, not in a family.

00:40:38.981 --> 00:40:40.963
Not in a good light setting right.

00:40:40.963 --> 00:40:44.695
I saw him screaming and yelling at people.

00:40:44.695 --> 00:40:46.271
He screamed and yelled at me one time.

00:40:46.726 --> 00:40:55.202
One time in the history of my life did he ever yell at me and and I just kind of saw him differently.

00:40:55.202 --> 00:41:03.565
It was interesting and I just thought that's what fucking, that's what businessmen do, that's how you fucking run a business right Interesting.

00:41:04.215 --> 00:41:08.626
You got to be a raging lunatic asshole Fucking raging yeah, yeah.

00:41:08.666 --> 00:41:11.463
Kind of I didn't really see raging lunatic asshole yet.

00:41:11.463 --> 00:41:23.322
But then my dad was so close to him that I would hear substance abuse and stuff like that and just hear the rumors around what was going on.

00:41:23.322 --> 00:41:42.980
And then I think we were 15 or 16 and Cameron and his old man- his dad came over to our house and I don't know if your dad had been drinking or, but you had to drive him.

00:41:42.980 --> 00:41:47.385
I think he sold it as, like a, you get to drive.

00:41:48.594 --> 00:41:49.177
Yeah, that's what.

00:41:49.177 --> 00:41:59.780
When I got my learner's permit, that was the greatest thing in the world for my dad, because he had just gotten a DUI so he couldn't be driving, so I was driving him to the bars.

00:42:00.916 --> 00:42:15.896
So he came over and he was obviously influenced and he was hanging out with my dad and that's the first time I started to see his dad in that light when you're younger.

00:42:15.896 --> 00:42:18.943
So my dad and my parents drank.

00:42:18.943 --> 00:42:27.871
I can't remember I'm not drinking right my whole life every day, daily drinkers mainly probably okay yeah

00:42:27.990 --> 00:42:31.418
beer yeah, no, fuck, no.

00:42:31.418 --> 00:42:38.949
So, uh, there used to be these sets of plastic cups.

00:42:38.949 --> 00:42:44.364
They were colored cups, they were about 10 inches tall.

00:42:44.364 --> 00:42:46.483
They were big plastic cups.

00:42:46.483 --> 00:42:49.704
You'd get them in a set and they were different colors and he would fill one.

00:42:49.704 --> 00:42:51.862
He would have a vodka tonic in there.

00:42:51.862 --> 00:42:58.197
Oh fuck, these cups are big right, they're like 10 inches tall and I remember that he would.

00:42:58.197 --> 00:43:02.206
He drank a ton of beer, just the shittiest beer.

00:43:02.226 --> 00:43:04.420
Meister Brower, it was like that.

00:43:05.858 --> 00:43:08.384
It was so bad in high school, we wouldn't even steal it.

00:43:08.423 --> 00:43:09.467
Holy gold?

00:43:09.467 --> 00:43:11.800
Oh no, Fucking hams.

00:43:13.454 --> 00:43:15.621
It was literally the shit you wouldn't even steal as a high school kid Bad.

00:43:15.621 --> 00:43:16.222
Maybe that's why he did it.

00:43:16.222 --> 00:43:16.925
Were your folks alcoholics.

00:43:16.925 --> 00:43:19.271
Yeah, it was literally the shit you wouldn't even steal as a high school kid Bad.

00:43:19.831 --> 00:43:20.132
Just a group.

00:43:20.132 --> 00:43:20.875
Maybe that's why he did it.

00:43:22.416 --> 00:43:23.259
Were your folks alcoholics.

00:43:23.259 --> 00:43:24.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:43:24.902 --> 00:43:26.626
Yeah, but what we're?

00:43:26.626 --> 00:43:34.675
So I saw his dad loaded and Cameron would have to drive him around.

00:43:34.675 --> 00:43:39.135
That's when I first saw when you're young, your parents are drinking.

00:43:39.135 --> 00:43:40.860
You don't pay any attention to it.

00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:42.103
There was, no, I don't remember.

00:43:42.103 --> 00:43:49.286
When we were young, I don't remember any, any booze, that's not true.

00:43:49.286 --> 00:43:51.938
My dad would get pretty violent on the road.

00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:52.420
Would he?

00:43:52.420 --> 00:43:53.362
Oh fuck To you.

00:43:53.742 --> 00:43:55.005
No no.

00:43:55.005 --> 00:43:57.349
To who Other drivers.

00:43:57.349 --> 00:44:00.548
He had some pretty cool road rage incidents.

00:44:00.570 --> 00:44:01.012
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:01.514 --> 00:44:01.675
Yeah.

00:44:02.115 --> 00:44:06.206
Yeah, there's nothing like listening to your old man road rage stories.

00:44:06.206 --> 00:44:10.983
Cameron was telling me about his dad just fucking rear-ended somebody on the freeway, going 75 miles an hour because he wouldn't get it.

00:44:10.983 --> 00:44:13.657
Like what the hell is wrong with you guys?

00:44:13.657 --> 00:44:18.601
Yeah, that's the anger and rage I'm referring to, in case you guys were concerned.

00:44:18.641 --> 00:44:26.929
My dad quit drinking on his own when I was probably I don't know high school.

00:44:27.250 --> 00:44:28.951
Really, yeah, and your mom kept drinking.

00:44:28.951 --> 00:44:39.722
Oh yeah, okay, interesting, and you also are sober Quit drinking when I was 28, 27, 28.

00:44:39.722 --> 00:44:41.284
What spurred that decision?

00:44:41.284 --> 00:44:43.567
For you, that's pretty young to get sober.

00:44:43.608 --> 00:44:44.429
To quit drinking.

00:44:44.429 --> 00:44:51.081
Yeah, that's a whole different.

00:44:51.081 --> 00:44:52.326
That's an hour-long podcast.

00:44:55.018 --> 00:44:58.009
Give me the 30,000-foot view.

00:44:58.009 --> 00:45:06.128
I spoke about this so many times, so the 30,000-foot, the cliff notes are I started drinking when I was really young.

00:45:06.128 --> 00:45:17.043
I became an alcoholic when I was really young, at a point when I was before I quit drinking.

00:45:17.043 --> 00:45:21.900
I had attempted to not drink anymore and I couldn't do it.

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:24.244
And lay people don't understand that.

00:45:24.244 --> 00:45:26.199
They don't understand about.

00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.126
Why don't you just stop drinking?

00:45:29.126 --> 00:45:34.824
Okay, tell the homeless guy you're homeless.

00:45:34.824 --> 00:45:36.291
Why don't you just go buy a house?

00:45:36.291 --> 00:45:36.592
Right?

00:45:36.592 --> 00:45:41.539
And that's a famous quote by a, an alcoholic's anonymous speaker.

00:45:41.539 --> 00:45:45.766
I feel like I lost the power.

00:45:45.766 --> 00:45:47.275
The decision wasn't mine to make anymore.

00:45:47.275 --> 00:45:50.222
Yeah, and I was in a bad spot.

00:45:50.222 --> 00:45:50.943
Physically.

00:45:50.943 --> 00:45:51.965
I was in a bad.

00:45:51.965 --> 00:45:53.208
I couldn't hold a job.

00:45:53.208 --> 00:45:53.588
I couldn't.

00:45:53.588 --> 00:45:55.478
I just didn't want to do it anymore.

00:45:56.820 --> 00:46:01.958
Um, the party was over and I couldn't, and then it got serious right.

00:46:02.438 --> 00:46:08.009
So I went to a treatment center, to a 60-day treatment center, and I got sober.

00:46:08.028 --> 00:46:11.001
That's how I got sober are you a one and done rehab person?

00:46:11.943 --> 00:46:12.666
no, I was.

00:46:12.666 --> 00:46:15.998
I went to, I've been in and out of treatment since I was 13 years old.

00:46:15.998 --> 00:46:19.246
Okay, it's been a birthday in treatment center when I was 13 or 14.

00:46:19.648 --> 00:46:19.887
Wow.

00:46:21.235 --> 00:46:22.237
Is that what prompted your?

00:46:22.257 --> 00:46:23.039
dad to quit drinking.

00:46:23.661 --> 00:46:24.523
No, he quit drinking.

00:46:24.523 --> 00:46:25.967
I don't know why he quit.

00:46:25.967 --> 00:46:34.534
It was always tough to get any kind of conversation from him about that Interesting.

00:46:34.534 --> 00:46:35.759
He didn't talk much about it.

00:46:35.759 --> 00:46:43.896
He just quit drinking when.

00:46:43.936 --> 00:46:45.019
I went to treatment center when I was 27.

00:46:45.019 --> 00:46:46.264
I've been sober ever since 24 years, I think.

00:46:46.264 --> 00:46:58.588
Yeah, it's interesting because you know, cameron still drinks and I don't, and he'll do like a I'm just not gonna drink for a month, you know and then he just doesn't drink for a month and I'm like I couldn't not drink for a day, like I was the last couple years I was on a hamster wheel and it was like, okay, just don't drink today.

00:46:58.675 --> 00:47:01.465
I remember like laying in bed every morning and be like just one day.

00:47:01.465 --> 00:47:02.701
You just need one day.

00:47:02.855 --> 00:47:07.242
My wife has no desire, she never has Exactly, and I and I hang around with people that are normal drinkers.

00:47:07.242 --> 00:47:18.471
You know like I remember going over to the boat with some of my when we landed and I didn't understand that we could go for a couple of days and they're like, oh, we go, stop and get a bottle of wine or whatever.

00:47:18.471 --> 00:47:19.778
I'm like are you crazy?

00:47:19.778 --> 00:47:22.065
I have shit in my purse, let's roll.

00:47:22.065 --> 00:47:29.753
It's interesting to have the dynamic with people that have a healthy relationship with alcohol and people that don't?

00:47:29.773 --> 00:47:30.175
It's pretty funny.

00:47:30.175 --> 00:47:32.903
It is it's interesting because it's a they're mostly pussies.

00:47:32.903 --> 00:47:42.161
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed jagger, I don't encourage people calling other people pussies.

00:47:42.161 --> 00:47:43.503
But you're absolutely right, my wife.

00:47:43.503 --> 00:47:46.871
We went to a wedding just this weekend and she and we have a hotel room.

00:47:46.871 --> 00:48:01.608
I'm driving right, she has no reason not to get after it, right and she ordered a half a drink like a fancy blueberry something sure, cocktail sure and that drink sat on the table all night.

00:48:01.628 --> 00:48:03.242
Yeah, which is so funny.

00:48:03.322 --> 00:48:11.123
No, I did, I took some sips yeah you.

00:48:11.244 --> 00:48:12.346
You were the kind of drinker.

00:48:12.346 --> 00:48:15.409
So, before I knew you, this is how cameron would describe you.

00:48:15.409 --> 00:48:16.940
I don't know if I've ever told you this.

00:48:16.940 --> 00:48:30.474
So he would say, Chagr will go into a bar fucking, pick a fight with the biggest motherfucker after he gets loaded and then step out of the way and let the rest of us fucking cash.

00:48:30.594 --> 00:48:33.836
I can't tell you how many times I got caught in that mess Right exactly.

00:48:34.297 --> 00:48:44.677
You know, and it's interesting because I you know, my first husband was an alcoholic, right, he was the we're going to drink everything behind the bar, right, and I don't feel like I.

00:48:44.677 --> 00:48:50.630
I was always a heavy drinker, but I feel, like you know, the last couple of years were pretty rough for me, just because of circumstances.

00:48:50.650 --> 00:48:50.851
You bet.

00:48:51.195 --> 00:48:56.105
You know, last couple of years you really just let the wheels come off.

00:48:56.105 --> 00:49:01.811
You know it's pretty crazy, but yeah, that was my description of you, and you had the long ponytail down to your ass.

00:49:02.456 --> 00:49:03.960
I spit on a biker one night.

00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.800
Oh my God, yeah, just giant fucking man Spit on a biker.

00:49:09.461 --> 00:49:11.166
You're not a big guy, you know what I mean.

00:49:11.286 --> 00:49:12.208
I'm not a big guy, yeah.

00:49:12.936 --> 00:49:14.885
You don't have any right to be spitting on bikers, but interesting.

00:49:14.885 --> 00:49:16.773
You don't have any right to be spitting on bikers, but interesting.

00:49:18.217 --> 00:49:19.519
Yeah, don't murder me bikers.

00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:21.184
I am a very I have a lot of.

00:49:21.184 --> 00:49:22.706
I love bikers.

00:49:22.726 --> 00:49:29.206
Yeah, of course Is there something that you know.

00:49:29.206 --> 00:49:33.541
When you said I have no idea why my dad quit drinking or whatever, oh, I'm sure there was something.

00:49:33.541 --> 00:49:39.755
Is there something or other things that you feel like, um, you didn't get to ask him.

00:49:40.516 --> 00:49:48.539
Yeah, tons yeah I don't know much about his dad, which is interesting, right, his dad was a difficult individual.

00:49:48.539 --> 00:49:55.759
He's tough dude yeah, his dad died burning a building down for the mob he got caught in.

00:49:55.838 --> 00:49:59.347
it Got smoke in his lungs.

00:49:59.347 --> 00:50:00.958
How old was your dad when that happened?

00:50:00.958 --> 00:50:03.326
Teenager yeah, too young, Like that's rough.

00:50:03.936 --> 00:50:06.820
My grandpa was a fighter, like a boxer.

00:50:06.820 --> 00:50:21.277
He fought some well-known boxers Wasn't any good, but he fought my dad, he taught my dad Like my dad, was a really good fighter, a legitimate boxer.

00:50:21.277 --> 00:50:22.099
He was a fucking.

00:50:22.099 --> 00:50:23.643
He was a trained fighter.

00:50:23.664 --> 00:50:31.088
Yeah, I remember when my dad tried to try to tangle with with your dad and it uh yeah, I remember that night it didn't.

00:50:31.088 --> 00:50:31.951
It didn't end well.

00:50:31.951 --> 00:50:35.077
My dad ended up in hospital did he go to the hospital?

00:50:35.077 --> 00:50:42.628
Well, I don't know which time we're talking about, so this one, this one, this was good he was training, he had these fucking huge hands.

00:50:42.809 --> 00:50:55.016
Yeah, those big mitts, it just my dad has those I wish I had those big hands like my dad will shake your hand and like one of his fingers is literally like the size of yeah, that's it's hard to get get your hand around yeah tom's palms.

00:50:55.016 --> 00:51:00.324
So so it's interesting's interesting, because how many years has it been since your dad passed?

00:51:01.827 --> 00:51:02.507
Nine.

00:51:02.849 --> 00:51:03.208
Nine.

00:51:03.530 --> 00:51:04.150
Same ages.

00:51:04.150 --> 00:51:05.367
He died a week after.

00:51:05.367 --> 00:51:05.711
Bennett was born.

00:51:05.711 --> 00:51:05.974
That's right.

00:51:06.514 --> 00:51:20.496
So my dad is 77, and when I go up to Colorado to visit my parents, I will just set up a time and for an hour, just video talking to them, Right?

00:51:20.496 --> 00:51:28.067
Because I think the exact same thing that you do you're going to lose all of that history and the things that you wanted to ask and don't know about what made them who they are.

00:51:28.175 --> 00:51:31.166
He just was not really receptive to that.

00:51:31.447 --> 00:51:34.797
Yeah, some people are very closed off with stuff, talk too much about it.

00:51:35.378 --> 00:51:54.407
But I will tell you and obviously this is why I bring up hunting and fishing so much is because it was such a huge part of me growing up and when we did talk, just the two of us, either driving down a road in Colorado or out in the woods together.

00:51:54.407 --> 00:51:58.545
Those are times that he would talk right a little bit.

00:51:58.545 --> 00:52:02.496
You talk about church, man.

00:52:02.496 --> 00:52:07.655
I've been by myself on the top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere.

00:52:07.655 --> 00:52:10.061
You want to talk about being close to God.

00:52:10.061 --> 00:52:11.606
That's why A thousand percent.

00:52:12.876 --> 00:52:14.503
That's why that is so important to me.

00:52:14.503 --> 00:52:18.784
Obviously there's a, not a habit, but there was a.

00:52:18.784 --> 00:52:25.108
You know that was part of me growing up and I'm desperate to try to get back.

00:52:25.108 --> 00:52:28.059
To experience that as well.

00:52:28.059 --> 00:52:33.782
I don't know if, like I said, I don't know if he will be into it like I'm into it.

00:52:34.289 --> 00:52:38.119
But it might just also teach him to find his God where he does.

00:52:38.179 --> 00:52:38.340
Right.

00:52:38.380 --> 00:52:42.902
His higher power wherever, because for me, I don't have a problem with God and church and all that.

00:52:43.331 --> 00:52:44.376
My yoga mat's, my church.

00:52:44.376 --> 00:52:46.487
I just have a problem with organized religion.

00:52:46.487 --> 00:52:48.070
Yeah, no for sure.

00:52:48.070 --> 00:52:54.896
We belong to definitely a non-denominational church, no Catholic.

00:52:54.896 --> 00:53:01.302
No, we're just not into the formal practices of things.

00:53:01.663 --> 00:53:03.144
Well, and again, to each their own.

00:53:03.144 --> 00:53:13.121
For me, organized religion was a really bad thing growing up and it just went against everything that I believed, because all of these people are human and I know that but in churches, communities.

00:53:13.121 --> 00:53:33.237
Put these, these pastors or whoever, on the pedestals and then they get caught doing bad shit bad shit and then it's like and I'm sitting there going, no one else notices that the emperor is not wearing any clothes no one else, and I remember doing that from 10, 12, you know, 13 years old and and we still go and give 10% of our money to them, even though we can't afford to put food on the table.

00:53:33.338 --> 00:53:38.597
I mean it's just shit like that, that for a child it's like this doesn't track for me, you know.

00:53:38.597 --> 00:53:44.054
So obviously I think everyone should do whatever makes them happy, and please don't send emails about.

00:53:44.054 --> 00:53:47.617
You know that you think that Catholicism is amazing because I couldn't give a shit less.

00:53:47.617 --> 00:53:54.606
What do you actively do to work on being better in life for yourself?

00:53:54.606 --> 00:53:57.398
And that same question goes for you.

00:53:58.371 --> 00:53:59.315
I'm glad I'm going second.

00:53:59.315 --> 00:54:02.735
Well, you might have to go first, jager's got that glossed-over.

00:54:02.795 --> 00:54:03.538
look on his face.

00:54:06.172 --> 00:54:12.063
No, I do a little bit of well.

00:54:12.063 --> 00:54:12.945
I exercise.

00:54:12.945 --> 00:54:18.702
I have a history of being a yo-yo exerciser.

00:54:18.702 --> 00:54:23.730
A what Yo-yo yeah you weigh into it, then not into it, then weigh into it.

00:54:23.769 --> 00:54:26.378
Yeah, because you did an Ironman, like all the things.

00:54:26.438 --> 00:54:28.534
Yeah, I'm high on the yo-yo right now.

00:54:28.594 --> 00:54:30.019
Yeah, yeah yeah, exercising.

00:54:30.019 --> 00:54:30.460
Yeah.

00:54:32.331 --> 00:54:35.010
I like trying new things.

00:54:35.010 --> 00:54:38.059
I don't read self-help books, I don't.

00:54:38.059 --> 00:54:46.983
There are some podcasts and some YouTube shit that I would watch of some people that I thought I could draw some stuff from.

00:54:46.983 --> 00:54:50.117
I try others.

00:54:50.117 --> 00:54:51.108
I try new things.

00:54:51.108 --> 00:54:51.599
I'm always I got into some stuff from.

00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:51.675
I try others.

00:54:51.675 --> 00:54:51.731
I try new things.

00:54:51.731 --> 00:54:52.213
I'm always.

00:54:52.213 --> 00:54:54.079
I got into jujitsu.

00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:58.240
There's some stuff that helps me there.

00:54:58.240 --> 00:55:04.981
I'm different today, man, I'm fucking not a raging lunatic like I used to be.

00:55:04.981 --> 00:55:08.380
I'm pretty passive driving in traffic now.

00:55:09.190 --> 00:55:17.318
You should be, because that's low-hanging fruit that's low-hanging fruit Like you should just check out and just drive Like nobody needs to rage there.

00:55:17.318 --> 00:55:18.675
I try to be.

00:55:18.675 --> 00:55:20.949
What do I do to work on it?

00:55:20.949 --> 00:55:24.557
I try to exercise, I try to do a little bit of meditation.

00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:29.056
My meditation is 30 seconds, yeah, and it's not like deep.

00:55:29.056 --> 00:55:29.820
Sure, sure, sure.

00:55:33.710 --> 00:55:36.168
It's not like deep, it's not like my Saturday nights at my house where we open the sky to the spirit world.

00:55:36.168 --> 00:55:51.277
No, I try to be self aware and I still use principles that I used when I got sober.

00:55:51.277 --> 00:55:58.000
Try to be self-aware about where my ego is and how and why.

00:55:58.199 --> 00:55:59.561
I'm acting the way I am.

00:55:59.561 --> 00:56:00.704
That's important.

00:56:01.324 --> 00:56:01.565
It is.

00:56:01.851 --> 00:56:03.016
It's really important, right.

00:56:03.237 --> 00:56:22.170
Yep, I think I've made some really good, some serious progress over the years right At work with other people as long as you realize, I think that there's work to be done and making yourself better right, because we put all of this energy and effort into making work better and making other people like all of the stuff.

00:56:22.170 --> 00:56:34.190
But then you don't realize maybe invest in yourself, in making you better because we learned all of these things until 18 and then you're just out free-balling it in the world and if you think you're perfect at 18 and you can just leave it like that Almost always.

00:56:34.210 --> 00:56:34.873
That's the case, right.

00:56:34.873 --> 00:56:35.556
Look inward.

00:56:35.556 --> 00:56:36.639
Yeah, look inward.

00:56:37.230 --> 00:56:38.835
What are you doing to improve yourself?

00:56:38.835 --> 00:56:40.860
It's a fun conversation.

00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:42.376
Thank you, Les, for joining us for this.

00:56:42.570 --> 00:57:00.327
It is a fun conversation, and so what I find interesting about my response to this question is that we were having a conversation the other day about how you are a guinea pig right for all the stuff, for all the people.

00:57:00.327 --> 00:57:08.170
You know, If we want to find out what it's like we're going to make, and go do it first right and so you're always the willing person to go, do that right.

00:57:08.349 --> 00:57:11.516
And so you're always the willing person to go, do that right.

00:57:11.516 --> 00:57:12.257
And so you know I always.

00:57:12.257 --> 00:57:15.822
I don't know if you've talked to your listeners before about pimpin.

00:57:15.822 --> 00:57:16.603
Has that been a thing yet?

00:57:16.623 --> 00:57:17.324
Yes, we've talked about that.

00:57:17.324 --> 00:57:18.186
We've talked about pimpin.

00:57:18.206 --> 00:57:39.262
Yeah, Okay so yeah, Okay, so I get to watch you try on all kinds of things, you try on all kinds of things, and when I see some of these things and see how well they fit, then I can dip my toe in and test water and see how that fits for me, right?

00:57:39.262 --> 00:57:44.063
If I feel like that's an improvement, you know, then that's something I can.

00:57:44.063 --> 00:57:45.409
That's a direction I'd go down.

00:57:45.409 --> 00:57:53.583
It's like an endless supply of you know options for me for personal improvement items by watching what works for you or maybe what doesn't work for you.

00:57:53.603 --> 00:57:54.824
It feels like cheating it might work.

00:57:54.824 --> 00:57:56.918
It feels like cheating is what I'm going to tell you.

00:57:56.918 --> 00:57:57.786
It is like cheating?

00:57:57.867 --> 00:57:59.614
right, it's a life hack.

00:57:59.614 --> 00:58:04.739
Fuck, that's what we call cheating nowadays life hack, right.

00:58:04.739 --> 00:58:17.525
So yeah, but you know, I feel like I always have two or three things that I feel like I'm deficient in some manner, or I just don't like, or I feel like I should do different or do better.

00:58:17.525 --> 00:58:18.793
Right, so there's always.

00:58:18.793 --> 00:58:20.057
It's a constant thing.

00:58:20.057 --> 00:58:22.853
I mean, that's life, that's the journey.

00:58:22.853 --> 00:58:26.039
Right, it's never about the result.

00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:27.697
You may not even ever get the result.

00:58:27.697 --> 00:58:34.451
You may spend your whole life trying to not get there, right, and then what?

00:58:34.451 --> 00:58:35.393
Right, you better enjoy the ride.

00:58:35.393 --> 00:58:39.891
Right, you better keep your eyes open all the way, because you might spend a whole lifetime and not get where you think you're going to go.

00:58:40.052 --> 00:58:43.657
Yeah, thank you guys for coming today.

00:58:43.657 --> 00:58:51.061
My may I suggest we're out of time, so I'm going to do my may I suggest, which has nothing to do with either of you, which is lovely.

00:58:51.061 --> 00:58:58.163
Well, maybe my may I suggest is take a hard look at your relationship with your kids.

00:58:58.163 --> 00:59:11.677
You know, I think we get so busy in doing the things that are important to us, or working, or I remember when the girls were little and they would come talk to me and I would be working and half listening to them and half not.

00:59:11.677 --> 00:59:16.876
When Wiley comes to me now or the girls come to me now, I drop everything and I focus on them.

00:59:17.592 --> 00:59:33.539
But my may I suggest is just taking a look at that and seeing if there's ways that you can improve open communication with your kiddos talking about the uncomfortable things, having the uncomfortable talks, Because if you're not going to have the uncomfortable talks with your kiddos, somebody else will.

00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:39.010
Somebody else will they carry it around right here, you know have those conversations.

00:59:39.010 --> 00:59:48.664
So if you have suggestions or questions, please email us at ladies, at let's get naked podcast dot com.

00:59:48.664 --> 00:59:52.559
And I think that's it.

00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.362
I mean we could talk for another hour just on Shager's everything.

00:59:59.371 --> 01:00:01.217
I think we should probably spare your listeners.

01:00:01.297 --> 01:00:04.072
Exactly, yeah, so on that note, that's a wrap.

01:00:04.072 --> 01:00:04.934
Thank you, guys.

01:00:04.934 --> 01:00:14.686
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.

01:00:14.686 --> 01:00:17.885
Let's get naked.