Dead Inside? Turns Out That's Just Emotional Constipation

WEBVTT

00:00:07.171 --> 00:00:08.913
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.

00:00:08.913 --> 00:00:09.994
Let's get naked.

00:00:09.994 --> 00:00:14.224
Hey everyone, I'm Anne.

00:00:14.224 --> 00:00:18.493
Welcome to the let's Get Naked podcast, where we dive deep into vulnerability.

00:00:18.493 --> 00:00:26.571
In this space, we'll explore what triggers us, uncover the patterns holding us back and discover how to take charge of our own growth.

00:00:26.571 --> 00:00:31.582
If you're ready to dig in, be vulnerable and face the tough stuff, then buckle up.

00:00:31.582 --> 00:00:32.804
It's time to get naked.

00:00:32.804 --> 00:00:35.371
Today, we're going to be talking about grief.

00:00:36.740 --> 00:00:42.060
Grief can start in so many ways when you lose someone who you never thought you'd have to live without.

00:00:42.060 --> 00:00:56.030
It might be the death of a partner, a parent, a sibling, a friend who was your rock, or it could be the end of a relationship when someone you once imagined a future with becomes a stranger.

00:00:56.030 --> 00:01:05.007
It's the feeling when you realize your childhood home is no longer yours, or when a job you loved fades away, taking your sense of purpose with it.

00:01:05.007 --> 00:01:15.823
These losses, big or small, expected or unexpected, spark grief, and that grief spreads like wildfire through your life in ways you can't predict.

00:01:15.823 --> 00:01:24.960
Grief is this massive, uninvited guest that crashes through your life and no one gives it enough credit for just how much it fucks with everything.

00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:35.411
It's not just some sad feeling that you feel when you think about a loss, it's this giant, shifting wave of emotion that wrecks your mind, body and spirit in the most insidious ways.

00:01:35.411 --> 00:01:38.728
It doesn't have a clear beginning or end.

00:01:38.728 --> 00:01:48.004
It just starts there, often without warning, and you're left grappling with the emotional aftermath as it bleeds into every part of your life.

00:01:48.004 --> 00:01:53.841
It's not just the obvious stuff, the sadness or the moments of deep despair.

00:01:53.841 --> 00:01:59.941
No, grief is like a spider web, stretching into places you didn't even know were connected to your pain.

00:01:59.941 --> 00:02:09.348
It shows up in the way you interact with people, how you sleep, how you eat or don't, and the strange disconnection you feel with the world around you.

00:02:09.348 --> 00:02:16.727
You can be fine one moment, and the next you're drowning in this quiet, persistent ache, struggling to breathe under the weight of it all.

00:02:16.727 --> 00:02:21.907
And the most frustrating part we're so bad at processing it.

00:02:21.907 --> 00:02:26.050
Like society has this weird, unspoken timeline for grief.

00:02:26.050 --> 00:02:32.046
Right, people expect you to be over it after a certain period, but grief doesn't fit neatly into that.

00:02:32.046 --> 00:02:35.870
You can't force it into a box or set a deadline for it to leave.

00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:42.930
It ebbs and flows, sometimes lurking in the background and other times hitting you like a ton of bricks when you least expect it.

00:02:42.930 --> 00:02:46.669
And God help you if you try to numb it or push it away.

00:02:46.669 --> 00:02:50.129
That's like ignoring a wound and hoping it heals on its own.

00:02:50.129 --> 00:02:52.026
Spoiler alert it doesn't.

00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:55.149
When we leave grief unprocessed, it festers.

00:02:55.149 --> 00:02:58.931
It takes root in places inside us that we didn't know were susceptible.

00:02:58.931 --> 00:03:04.741
You start carrying all this unresolved emotional baggage around, and it's not just the past that hurts.

00:03:04.741 --> 00:03:08.905
You bring that pain into the present, carrying all this unresolved emotional baggage around, and it's not just the past that hurts.

00:03:08.905 --> 00:03:11.587
You bring that pain into the present and it messes with your ability to function, to love, to be whole.

00:03:11.608 --> 00:03:19.074
Grief has a way of coloring your interactions, making you more irritable, more withdrawn and less capable of really being in the world.

00:03:19.074 --> 00:03:31.568
You might stop trusting people, stop caring about things you once loved and end up living in a fog of detached, suppressed emotions.

00:03:31.568 --> 00:03:33.657
It can ruin your ability to find peace or joy, leaving you stuck in a cycle of resentment or fear.

00:03:33.657 --> 00:03:38.961
And when we try to rush through grief or sweep it under the rug, we miss the chance to actually learn from it.

00:03:38.961 --> 00:03:43.176
Because grief, as ugly and painful as it is, is a teacher.

00:03:43.176 --> 00:03:50.110
It shows you the depths of your own vulnerability, your ability to love and be loved, your strength in surviving.

00:03:50.110 --> 00:03:58.407
If you let it, it can be an agent of change, but that requires giving it the space and respect it deserves, something we're not always great at.

00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:11.174
We need to stop treating grief like it's something to get over or move past as quickly as possible and start embracing it for what it is a multi-layered transformative force that takes time, care and attention to process.

00:04:11.174 --> 00:04:14.747
If you leave it unprocessed, that's a slow burn.

00:04:14.747 --> 00:04:18.702
You'll feel it in every part of your life in ways you never expected.

00:04:18.702 --> 00:04:28.206
It'll ruin your mental health, your relationship, your sense of self and, before you know it, you're a version of yourself that doesn't even resemble who you once were.

00:04:28.206 --> 00:04:29.769
The damage is real.

00:04:29.769 --> 00:04:31.341
It's not just sadness.

00:04:31.341 --> 00:04:34.911
It's the unraveling of the threads that hold your whole damn existence together.

00:04:34.911 --> 00:04:39.812
Grief deserves to be felt, to be acknowledged, to be processed fully.

00:04:39.812 --> 00:04:46.492
Otherwise it'll stick around, in ways you can't even imagine, long after the moment of loss has passed.

00:04:46.492 --> 00:04:52.949
Today, we're stripping it all off with Laura Walton.

00:04:52.949 --> 00:05:01.434
Laura is a licensed marriage, family therapist, grief coach, after-loss professional, yoga instructor and author.

00:05:01.434 --> 00:05:09.166
You can find Laura, including online courses that she offers to help work through grief and trauma, at griefonpurposecom.

00:05:09.166 --> 00:05:10.911
Welcome to the show, laura.

00:05:10.911 --> 00:05:13.401
Hi, hi, thanks for having me.

00:05:13.502 --> 00:05:31.175
Also joining us today is my youngest brother, keith, who I also call Tony, as most of you know, tony is joining us to be able to share and discuss our family's journey with us, as it surrounds the grief that the loss of our sister a few years ago brought to our front door.

00:05:31.175 --> 00:05:33.809
So welcome to you as well.

00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:35.761
Thank you, it's wonderful to be back again, yeah.

00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:37.324
For everyone listening.

00:05:37.324 --> 00:05:46.588
This is going to be a difficult episode for all of us, actually, and so it is what it is.

00:05:46.588 --> 00:05:48.507
That's real life.

00:05:48.507 --> 00:05:51.490
Grief is, like I always say, the granddaddy of emotions.

00:05:51.490 --> 00:06:05.249
So, laura, I would love to start with you and just kind of hear about your journey and what got you to do what you do for a living which I find to be fascinating and incredible work that I think is so incredibly important.

00:06:05.249 --> 00:06:12.190
So, if you don't mind, just kind of sharing with us your journey for how you got to here, yes, yeah.

00:06:14.259 --> 00:06:28.105
Well, first I just want to say, over the last I don't know 15 years or so, at least professionally speaking, grief has become just what I do, or so, at least professionally speaking, grief has become just what I do.

00:06:28.105 --> 00:06:30.552
And you know, when you do something every day, it just becomes to some degree normal.

00:06:30.552 --> 00:06:45.507
And so hearing what you wrote, that was that was good and that, that that kind of brought me back to the reality of it, of grief, and like why I'm even here and what I do, why I even do what I do, why it's important.

00:06:45.507 --> 00:06:48.394
So thank you for that, Absolutely.

00:06:48.394 --> 00:06:56.367
It was hard to read, yeah, yeah, but I am a licensed therapist, a grief coach.

00:06:56.367 --> 00:06:58.951
I I got into this.

00:06:58.951 --> 00:07:02.444
Well, I got into this work because of my life experiences.

00:07:02.624 --> 00:07:08.625
I never I wasn't one of those kids who was like I'm going to be a doctor when I grow up or I'm going to be a lawyer, whatever.

00:07:08.625 --> 00:07:11.529
I didn't have a thing I was going to be when I grew up.

00:07:11.529 --> 00:07:24.312
And then I found myself in my 20s being faced with death right in the right smack there in front of you.

00:07:24.312 --> 00:07:27.297
My dad committed suicide when I was 21.

00:07:27.297 --> 00:07:35.995
And when I was 26, the guy who had been my on again, off again, boyfriend.

00:07:35.995 --> 00:07:43.012
But more than that, my best friend in the whole world died of a drug overdose.

00:07:43.012 --> 00:07:49.482
Friend in the whole world died of a drug overdose.

00:07:49.482 --> 00:08:01.666
So both of those situations I was completely unprepared for and found myself very quickly in the aftermath, navigating a world that felt like it was unprepared for me, unprepared for what I was going through.

00:08:01.826 --> 00:08:06.435
With those situations I couldn't find great support out there.

00:08:06.435 --> 00:08:11.771
I couldn't find resources I couldn't find and me being in my 20s contributed to this.

00:08:11.771 --> 00:08:24.170
But I couldn't find anybody else who was experiencing this and given the fact that we will all die at some point, that even then that struck me as crazy.

00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:26.807
Yeah, why is there nothing out here?

00:08:26.807 --> 00:08:29.004
So it took me some time.

00:08:29.004 --> 00:08:42.971
But, um, that was what motivated me to go to grad school, became a therapist, um, I knew I was going to be working with grief from the beginning, um, and so, you know, eventually was able to start my own practice and work with grief.

00:08:42.971 --> 00:08:46.403
You know, eventually was able to start my own practice and work with grief.

00:08:46.403 --> 00:09:07.114
And then, in the more recent years, um, I feel like I'm kind of growing beyond the box of therapy, um, trying to broaden my reach and broaden more what I'm able to do, and so that's evolving more into the coaching and I'm writing a book, um, and just this whole evolution of my work with grief.

00:09:08.421 --> 00:09:19.028
I think it's incredible I really do, I think dedicating your work and your passion to something that's so incredibly important that I think so many people don't talk about.

00:09:19.028 --> 00:09:29.024
I have friends and family and I think it's just so, almost even taboo which is crazy to me because we're in 2025, and I think we still don't talk about.

00:09:29.024 --> 00:09:30.788
I'm really struggling with this.

00:09:30.788 --> 00:09:31.772
Whatever it is right.

00:09:31.772 --> 00:09:37.988
Obviously we talk about the loss of family members and parents and siblings and stuff.

00:09:37.988 --> 00:09:40.144
We still don't.

00:09:40.144 --> 00:09:43.789
I think people don't know what to say, and so they get twisted up in that.

00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:49.437
I think people don't know what to say and so they get twisted up in that.

00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:56.534
It's so important, I think, to kind of normalize the conversation around that so that we can also support, because I don't know how you processed the grief that you had.

00:09:56.534 --> 00:10:02.759
Maybe you can share that, but for me, I just about melted my entire life down because I didn't know how to process regular emotions.

00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:15.405
And then you hit me upside the head with what I will call the granddaddy of emotions and it weaseled its way into every aspect of my life and I just about burned my entire life down because I just didn't know how to handle it.

00:10:15.405 --> 00:10:27.134
You know, and so when you talk about being 21 and losing your father which in a horrible way right, it isn't like it's obviously tragic enough for somebody to have a heart attack or something, but in such a tragic way.

00:10:27.134 --> 00:10:32.246
You know how, what, where did you find support, or you know, or what did that look like for you?

00:10:32.707 --> 00:10:34.633
Well with with my dad's death.

00:10:34.633 --> 00:10:39.610
It was different than than my boyfriend's death later.

00:10:39.610 --> 00:10:44.350
With my dad's death, I don't think I think I dealt with it by avoiding it.

00:10:44.350 --> 00:11:09.448
I at the time was actually dating the guy who ended up dying later, but we were long distance relationship and so I ended up leaving Phoenix and going to live where he was living and it felt like just kind of this like I'm done with Arizona, I'm done with my family, I'm done, you know, like I'm done with Arizona, I'm done with my family, I'm done with you know, like I'm done with all of this and I'm just going to go run away from it.

00:11:09.448 --> 00:11:18.191
Um, and so that's, that was okay for, yeah, until it wasn't.

00:11:18.191 --> 00:11:26.673
That was okay for, uh, five years, um, but then the next death happened and that blew my world apart.

00:11:26.673 --> 00:11:37.653
My relationship with the boyfriend who died was better than my relationship with my dad, and so that to me at the time felt like a bigger loss and a harder loss.

00:11:37.653 --> 00:11:44.072
But I think it was also compounded with what I hadn't faced with my dad.

00:11:44.419 --> 00:11:46.004
Right, the unprocessed grief.

00:11:46.004 --> 00:11:55.466
That was kind of like following around behind you like a wrecking ball, yeah, which I feel like that does when you don't process it yeah, yes, yeah, for sure.

00:11:55.546 --> 00:12:08.214
So then, yeah, just not knowing how to process all of this when it came um, smashing down on me was was I initially the part that I was like what the fuck?

00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:10.386
There's no guidebook for this.

00:12:10.488 --> 00:12:14.571
Right, there's nobody to help you with this that I could find.

00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:23.572
Well, in 20s it's hard enough to deal with regular life in your 20s, right, you're trying to figure out who you are, or just some basic stuff.

00:12:23.572 --> 00:12:31.961
But, on top of that, you're trying to deal with loss at such a big level for both of those, yeah yeah, and some of what I found like almost made it worse.

00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:38.693
Like I, I found support groups, but they were for 80 year olds who's um, you know, and there's.

00:12:38.693 --> 00:12:44.578
So there were so many complexities I found, because I was looking for support around losing a partner, but we weren't married, we were young, you know.

00:12:44.578 --> 00:12:44.668
So I found these support.

00:12:44.668 --> 00:12:46.643
I was looking for support around losing a partner, but we weren't married, we were young, you know.

00:12:46.643 --> 00:12:59.951
So I found these support groups where, as I said, 80-year-olds' husbands or wives had died, but it just felt like, but that's not me, and so that made me feel that much more alone.

00:12:59.951 --> 00:13:06.633
Yeah, like I couldn't find anybody who was remotely similar to what I was experiencing.

00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:20.572
Do you feel like you know part of what I, what I said at the beginning about getting through it, or you know kind of society's OK, get over it, or there's a certain expiration date on when your grief should be processed.

00:13:20.572 --> 00:13:22.602
What are your thoughts on that?

00:13:22.602 --> 00:13:26.149
What is your kind of your training on that?

00:13:26.149 --> 00:13:36.428
Or do you get to a point where it's I've processed that all the way through, or is that just something then that you always will deal with in some capacity?

00:13:37.171 --> 00:13:42.466
Yeah, well, everybody seems to have their own idea of some magic number right.

00:13:42.927 --> 00:14:15.349
Like, but this time by when we should be done grieving, um, or we should be over it, or it's time to move on, um, you know, six months a year, two years, five years, whatever, like there's there is no right or wrong answer, um, but we get these messages from the people in our lives, or just from society in general, that there is a timeline and if we're not feeling better, or whatever that means, by that timeline, then there's something wrong with us or we're doing it wrong.

00:14:15.349 --> 00:14:26.325
So then that can create a whole other slew of problems, because not only are you grieving and feeling all of that, but then you're you're, you're doing it wrong.

00:14:26.546 --> 00:14:34.807
Right, which feels terrible in and of itself, right Like yeah, okay, that's, that's fascinating.

00:14:34.807 --> 00:14:52.669
Where do you feel, like how long had it been in that process for you, for both of those losses, that you felt like you were able to get some traction on any of the things, any of the tools or direction, that you were able to find that support that was meaningful and something that actually tracked in with what you were experiencing?

00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:54.640
Yeah.

00:14:54.640 --> 00:15:09.811
So the most meaningful thing that I felt at the time and now, reflecting back on all the things I've done over the years, I still find it to be true is my yoga practice.

00:15:09.811 --> 00:15:15.029
So I had already been practicing.

00:15:15.029 --> 00:15:24.688
I guess I started practicing yoga after my dad's death but before my boyfriend's death, so I already had a little bit of experience with that.

00:15:24.688 --> 00:15:30.783
But there was a yoga teacher training that I did in 2008.

00:15:30.783 --> 00:15:32.727
My boyfriend had died in 2007.

00:15:32.727 --> 00:15:36.715
So I think it started almost a year after.

00:15:36.715 --> 00:15:42.649
That was the thing that was life changing and transformative.

00:15:42.649 --> 00:15:43.832
But it wasn't just about.

00:15:43.832 --> 00:15:47.765
When I say yoga, yoga, people often think of the physical poses and the fitness.

00:15:47.785 --> 00:15:54.586
Yeah, the fitness part, that's what we generally understand yoga to be um, in our society at least.

00:15:54.586 --> 00:16:16.831
Uh, so that's a part of it, but it's only one small part of it, and the training that I did and the study that I kind of unknowingly threw myself into was the study of the other limbs of yoga and just how those, what those are, getting a better understanding of what those are and because of where I was in my life, I applied those to my grief.

00:16:16.831 --> 00:16:39.450
But if I had to summarize it in one sentence, which is next to impossible to do, but it's the lesson of learning how to relax with what is learning how to be with something that's really uncomfortable really leaning into that discomfort yes, and so through that yoga teacher training that's.

00:16:39.910 --> 00:16:45.489
That was probably my number one big takeaway and that directly applied to grief.

00:16:45.629 --> 00:17:04.843
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that and I think that that's that speaks volumes to me when you say that because I relay that to I had never lost anybody until my sister passed away, and so, being able to run from it as I did for a couple of years after she passed because I didn't want to lean into the discomfort, I didn't want to sit with it you know.

00:17:04.863 --> 00:17:19.375
and so the the yoga that you talk about and the being comfortable just sitting with grief, I don't think there's anything probably more painful than sitting with grief and I think that that's why we numb and we try to hide from it and we all of the things.

00:17:19.375 --> 00:17:40.353
But when you realize that it literally is a wrecking ball that you're pulling around behind your life, hurting other people, not being, you know, living your best life, having that spider into all of the different areas of yours kind of makes it, once you have that awareness, makes it way more important for you to do that work.

00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:43.990
Yeah, yeah, because we're not taught to do that.

00:17:43.990 --> 00:17:45.436
We're not taught how to sit with something uncomfortable, period, right, whatever.

00:17:45.436 --> 00:17:45.855
Yeah, cause we're not taught to do that.

00:17:45.855 --> 00:17:48.525
We're not taught, we're not taught how to sit with something uncomfortable, period Whatever that is.

00:17:48.866 --> 00:17:53.824
It's so easy just to distract with 10,000 things in any given moment.

00:17:53.824 --> 00:18:03.868
So, yeah, when it comes to grief, we definitely don't know and aren't prepared for how to be with that, but that is the one I don't know.

00:18:03.868 --> 00:18:04.730
I'll use the word key.

00:18:04.730 --> 00:18:14.989
That is the one key to grief, to being able to, because grief is always gonna be a part of your life and your story once you experience it.

00:18:14.989 --> 00:18:22.413
So in being able to have that be true, we need to be able to sit with it.

00:18:24.205 --> 00:18:37.805
I find it fascinating that so many of us have no idea how to deal with grief, because it isn't just the loss of someone, it's the loss of marriage, it's the loss of something that maybe you were working towards that got pulled out from underneath you for whatever reason in life.

00:18:37.805 --> 00:18:41.977
I mean, grief is such a big, broad emotion.

00:18:41.977 --> 00:18:47.237
How could we be so terrible as a society at processing it?

00:18:47.237 --> 00:18:54.699
Do you find that that's, have you found that that's more of a our society like America kind of thing?

00:18:54.699 --> 00:18:57.795
Are there other cultures in other countries that they're better at doing that?

00:18:57.795 --> 00:19:01.355
Or is that, or maybe that's not even something that you have any idea about?

00:19:01.785 --> 00:19:19.998
I don't have a ton of experience in that as far as other cultures, maybe avoidance of it, I do know that some cultures every culture probably has a different, very general and stereotypical way that they understand death and view death.

00:19:19.998 --> 00:19:22.150
That applies to some people but not all.

00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:45.657
But you know, in some of the work I've done I've seen um different beliefs where we don't talk about the dead because, um, they believe that the belief there is that that keeps the them still in this physical world when they're trying to travel beyond, to the next realm or um world or whatever that belief is, but we keep them trapped when we talk about them.

00:19:45.657 --> 00:19:46.839
Interesting, yeah.

00:19:47.365 --> 00:19:51.576
I feel like I have a better an understanding that you would want to talk about.

00:19:51.576 --> 00:19:52.156
Right.

00:19:52.156 --> 00:20:01.325
For me, it's like celebrating my sister on her birthday, or speaking about her and really celebrating that and the impact that she had in this world, instead of just the opposite.

00:20:01.325 --> 00:20:04.134
So it's fascinating to me that you say that.

00:20:04.684 --> 00:20:14.356
Well, it's interesting and I'm not certainly not going to say any particular culture is right or wrong, but it does make me curious, like how does that impact your grief process?

00:20:14.664 --> 00:20:32.991
Absolutely Right, because if you are trying to let them go and not remember them and have a still a connection we've talked previously about kind of having a connection with your person after they've passed and how important that is for some of us I think some people definitely don't want anything to do with that.

00:20:32.991 --> 00:20:38.492
We're going to push that down and push that away, which was definitely what I subscribed to.

00:20:38.492 --> 00:20:39.034
Initially.

00:20:39.034 --> 00:20:44.271
It was okay, well, she's not here and so how do I just move on from that?

00:20:44.271 --> 00:20:51.734
But as I've gone through processing my grief, it's more how do you celebrate her, how do you celebrate her life?

00:20:51.734 --> 00:20:52.777
How do you stay connected?

00:20:52.777 --> 00:20:58.317
When are the times that you do feel connected to that person, even though they're not here with us anymore?

00:20:58.336 --> 00:21:02.191
So you would think for me, like no, we want to remember our people.

00:21:02.191 --> 00:21:03.593
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:03.593 --> 00:21:05.056
Did you have um?

00:21:05.056 --> 00:21:05.817
Was your?

00:21:05.817 --> 00:21:06.897
Was your family?

00:21:06.897 --> 00:21:08.467
Do you have siblings?

00:21:08.467 --> 00:21:13.167
How was what did that look like when your dad committed suicide and was like what did that whole support?

00:21:13.167 --> 00:21:17.136
Or was that everyone go your own direction and not really talk about it much?

00:21:17.136 --> 00:21:17.885
Or what did that look?

00:21:17.925 --> 00:21:32.155
like Well, I do have siblings, I'm the oldest, I have a younger sister and a younger brother and I wouldn't say we've ever been the closest family.

00:21:32.155 --> 00:21:39.916
And I think that remained true in grief, in that it was sort of kind of figure it out on your own.

00:21:39.936 --> 00:21:40.838
Remain to themselves, yeah.

00:21:40.858 --> 00:21:52.160
Yeah, I was, I'm the oldest and so and I wasn't even in actually in the state when it happened.

00:21:52.160 --> 00:22:03.714
And so I, you know, came back to Arizona soon after, but my sister was actually there for what happened and witnessed and witnessed he.

00:22:03.714 --> 00:22:10.121
Basically he called my sister and told her that he was going to kill himself.

00:22:18.086 --> 00:22:21.758
And quick backstory he had, my dad, struggled with mental health and this topic of suicide was not a new topic for us.

00:22:21.758 --> 00:22:23.202
He had talked about it throughout my childhood.

00:22:23.202 --> 00:22:31.972
So for him to say I'm going to kill myself wasn't something we hadn't heard before, but it's obviously still something you jump at.

00:22:31.972 --> 00:22:39.030
And he called my sister, who was a week away from turning 18 at the time, and told her that.

00:22:39.030 --> 00:22:47.393
And she went over to his house and he, he called the, he also called the police and told them he was going to kill himself.

00:22:47.393 --> 00:23:00.211
And they showed up and he had a gun and he pointed it at them and they told him to drop it and he didn't, so they shot him and my sister was there and witnessed the whole thing.

00:23:00.211 --> 00:23:14.249
So with that comes a lot, a lot of a lot of layers of emotion and beliefs and, um, you know, how do you make sense of that.

00:23:15.049 --> 00:23:48.813
Um so, you know, I was as the big sister, you know like at 21 right, I mean yes, no, yeah I mean you were, but that's crazy because you're still a child at 21, trying to deal with these huge emotions yeah, but as the the big, the older sister who in some ways, I think on on reflection of my childhood, had felt kind of a sense of responsibility for the younger ones, like that, you know, that carries some weight to it, and my brother was 14 at the time, so he's a kid too.

00:23:48.813 --> 00:24:05.073
But in the I mean, as I said, I dealt with it by moving out of state, so we definitely weren't, you know, like bonding over that or connecting over the experience.

00:24:05.073 --> 00:24:11.276
It felt like it's like figure it out on your own yeah, yeah god, that's so heavy.

00:24:11.738 --> 00:24:12.980
I know I can feel it.

00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:15.388
It's crazy because the weight in here is a lot.

00:24:15.388 --> 00:24:19.747
Yeah, it is really heavy in here and I've told this story a lot of times before.

00:24:19.747 --> 00:24:21.509
You know, and it's not new, but it's still.

00:24:21.509 --> 00:24:23.614
This is the grief like this is.

00:24:23.614 --> 00:24:30.968
It's still true, it's still real, it still holds all of that emotion, even now.

00:24:30.968 --> 00:24:39.027
I can't do math, but 20 over 20 years ago right, right, and it's still same.

00:24:39.228 --> 00:24:46.416
So I would love to to use this as an opportunity to kind of segue into talking a little bit about.

00:24:46.416 --> 00:25:17.897
You know our experience and I'll share that and maybe you can offer some insight or ask questions or help along our journey too, because obviously 20 years later and it still not only brings emotion to you but to others that hear that story, because you do hear people that struggle with suicidal thoughts and I've dealt with that in our family, not where someone actually committed suicide, but just the thoughts of that and saying I'm going to do this and how scary that is.

00:25:17.897 --> 00:25:31.295
And you get to where it's not like crying wolf, but crying wolf a little bit, because it's such an emotional roller coaster of okay I'm okay, I'm okay, and now I'm not okay, now I'm not okay, and everyone's just trying to do their own lives as well.

00:25:31.295 --> 00:25:44.457
So, regardless of whether it's a family member or not, you still get kind of roped into this whole roller coaster of a whole life with someone and I'm so sympathetic to that because it's just torture, it's pure torture.

00:25:44.457 --> 00:25:49.968
So sympathetic to that because it's just it's torture, it's pure torture.

00:25:49.968 --> 00:26:06.700
So a little bit of a history on the grief that got slammed in our front door Tony, my sister, who, in our birth order oldest sister, next sister, the one that passed is the second in the birth order, then me, then I have a younger brother and then Tony is the baby.

00:26:09.345 --> 00:26:39.939
Ten years ago-ish, our sister was pregnant with her fourth child and she was living in an unconventional situation where they were in a community in wall tents kind of thing, and she decided that she was going to do a home birth with not any professionals.

00:26:39.939 --> 00:26:42.428
Like she was 39 years old, you're already high risk.

00:26:42.428 --> 00:26:43.871
You don't have any business doing that.

00:26:43.871 --> 00:26:58.096
But she was an hour away from the closest hospital and went into labor and the midwives in training were not able to provide assistance that she needed and she died giving birth to her fourth child.

00:26:58.096 --> 00:27:16.936
And Tony and I were talking the other day about what that phone call felt like and where we were and trying to get to her, because at the moment of that phone call they didn't know if she was going to make it, but she wasn't dead yet.

00:27:16.936 --> 00:27:31.536
They were driving her to the closest hospital and then airlifting her to Nashville and by the time we got on the ground in Nashville our other brother picked us up and said that she wasn't going to make it.

00:27:31.536 --> 00:27:37.405
She was at that point in a coma, but they were just keeping her alive long enough so that we could come say goodbye to her.

00:27:38.448 --> 00:27:52.722
I feel like, for those that know me, they realize that that imploded my entire life, but not in a way that you maybe even realize from the outside.

00:27:52.722 --> 00:28:09.570
I was always a big drinker, anyways, and I remember coming back from that all happening and doing the funerals and doing the service in Colorado, and I remember sitting at my desk and there was just nothing in my head, it was just static and I didn't know what to do.

00:28:09.570 --> 00:28:15.509
And again, I, my history with emotions is fuck them, you don't need them, you don't even want to waste.

00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:18.536
Those are messy, you know.

00:28:18.536 --> 00:28:23.070
And so that was literally my, my entire relationship with emotions.

00:28:23.070 --> 00:28:43.255
Up until that point I was I was 37 years old at that point because she was 39, so, yeah, I guess it was 10 years, um, and I spent the next uh, two years just destroying my life with alcohol and not even really realizing I was doing that, because I didn't realize what grief was.

00:28:43.255 --> 00:28:59.071
I was just numbing, I was numbing, numbing, numbing, and that was just so that I didn't have to feel it and then I got sober and I realized, oh, that's a huge part of it.

00:28:59.071 --> 00:29:13.144
Obviously I had other things that were in my past, but the grief component of that I can't even put words to how that feels and I know that you know, in dealing with your own grief and also just helping other people process their own.

00:29:14.005 --> 00:29:19.906
But to me on a scale of 1 to 10, that's like a 40 of painful to sit in grief to.

00:29:19.906 --> 00:29:21.644
Really there's no answers.

00:29:21.644 --> 00:29:24.094
There's no like woulda coulda shoulda.

00:29:24.094 --> 00:29:25.609
Why did this happen?

00:29:25.609 --> 00:29:26.875
Like there's no answers.

00:29:26.875 --> 00:29:27.220
There's no like woulda coulda shoulda.

00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:27.162
Why did this happen?

00:29:27.162 --> 00:29:43.534
Like there's no, there's no rhyme or reason to why you lost your dad at 21, why you lost the most important person in your life at 26 I mean, you're a baby at 26, right, and even though I was 37 and my sister was 39, it's like there's no, there's no rhyme or reason.

00:29:43.534 --> 00:29:45.518
She's here one day, gone the next.

00:29:47.125 --> 00:29:51.958
I have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years really kind of processing that.

00:29:51.958 --> 00:29:54.088
I feel like I've gotten better at it.

00:29:54.088 --> 00:30:04.617
You know the first couple of years of drinking and whatnot and then just really doing therapy and lots of different healing modalities to work through that.

00:30:04.617 --> 00:30:17.653
I still think there's a pile there, you know, I think you start with like here's this pile of grief maybe, and then you know not that it's ever gone, gone, but I think there's definitely, when you're ready to tackle that, a lot more to tackle.

00:30:19.026 --> 00:30:36.393
Tony, maybe you can share where you have been with the grief process for that, or you know what that looked like for you, or your understanding of grief from you know, maybe a person who didn't deal with that before, just Laura for your information and our listeners.

00:30:36.393 --> 00:30:39.077
Uh, tony, also subscribed to the same.

00:30:39.077 --> 00:30:41.028
Who needs emotions?

00:30:41.028 --> 00:30:43.192
Fuck them.

00:30:43.192 --> 00:30:44.476
My other brother, same right.

00:30:44.476 --> 00:30:47.229
We all just joked around for so many years that we were dead inside.

00:30:47.229 --> 00:30:50.215
We were happy to be that way, yeah, even before she passed.

00:30:50.215 --> 00:30:59.393
So then when you have something like this that happens, it just it feels like someone brought a ton of cement and just poured it on top of you and it's like I don't even know.

00:30:59.393 --> 00:31:05.277
I don't know how to deal with joy and peace, and you know happiness and sadness and the regular ones.

00:31:05.277 --> 00:31:07.169
Now here's grief, you know.

00:31:07.169 --> 00:31:09.773
So, tony, what, what did that look like for you?

00:31:10.256 --> 00:31:17.146
um, it looked like processing anything else that was undesirable for me.

00:31:17.146 --> 00:31:22.531
Um, it meant it was.

00:31:22.531 --> 00:31:36.555
I see kind of a pattern with dealing with things like that, because our mother lost both of her sisters at an early age too, and I was around for both of their deaths for some reason.

00:31:36.555 --> 00:31:38.291
That just seems to be a weird thing.

00:31:38.291 --> 00:31:54.471
And then one of our uncles passed away and we've had multiple outside family members pass away that we weren't necessarily super close with and I feel like and I have never really delved into it, but I feel like it was just a okay, this event happened.

00:31:54.471 --> 00:31:58.689
Now we're moving on to the next, and that is kind of what happened with Marine.

00:31:58.729 --> 00:32:16.646
It was a little more drawn out because we got that phone call, we had to scramble, we got over there, we had a funeral, then we went to Colorado, we had a funeral and it was a lot of moving around and I wasn't with everybody when, like over Easter, I remember that year, everybody was up in Colorado but for some reason I was down here by myself.

00:32:16.646 --> 00:32:26.551
And I remember distinctly one of the things that I thought was I'm so relieved that she's not here anymore.

00:32:26.551 --> 00:32:29.991
For her own sake, of course, we all want her here.

00:32:29.991 --> 00:32:46.048
But, given her situation, given that she thought she had no other options and no other choices, I think I found some solace in that, even though it wasn't the answer that I wanted and it wasn't what any of us wanted, even though it wasn't the answer that I wanted and it wasn't what any of us wanted.

00:32:46.048 --> 00:33:01.038
I don't know if that's just like a really messed up way to look at things, of like, yeah, there's, she's not dealing with all that, she's not having to sacrifice everything about who she is and what she is because she doesn't feel like she has any other way out.

00:33:01.038 --> 00:33:09.650
And also, I had I happened to be in Colorado when they were up there at the month prior, so it was very short.

00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:12.757
Like I saw her and then the next time I saw her she was no longer.

00:33:12.757 --> 00:33:24.773
And that is a lasting memory for me, because and I thankfully have that picture of her riding the horse, which is always where she wanted to be that's all she wanted to do.

00:33:24.773 --> 00:33:45.453
And there was another component of that for me that was like I'm so glad I got to see her at that time, because that my relationship with her was probably just as weird as it was with everybody else, like we talked, we didn't really necessarily have any drama or problems or anything, but it was a struggle.

00:33:45.453 --> 00:34:02.512
She had things going on, I had things going on, we were trying to do all that so, but she had been removed out of my life, outside of phone calls and things and the rare visit for so many years and so long that it also was a okay, well, she's just no longer here.

00:34:03.233 --> 00:34:03.915
And it wasn't.

00:34:03.915 --> 00:34:10.735
It didn't never like click in my brain of like the gravity and this just the gravity of the whole situation.

00:34:10.735 --> 00:34:12.827
It was okay, well, this all happened.

00:34:12.827 --> 00:34:18.989
Okay, well, I have to prepare for my trip to Europe, so I'm going to go to Europe and then, oh well, I get back from Europe and now I have to have surgery.

00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:27.869
So I'm just going to go into surgery and then, okay, I have four months off and then I'm going to go into another surgery and then we're going to go to Colorado and then we're going to go do this and then all of these things.

00:34:29.192 --> 00:34:46.969
Now that I'm thinking about it, I've never thought about it before, maybe not necessarily things that I chose to numb with, but they were helping me numb, because I'm really good at completely pushing everything back, completely ignoring things and just going on with my day because I have something else to do.

00:34:46.969 --> 00:34:54.376
The same thing and I don't ever want to compare the death of an animal to a death of a relative but I did the same thing when I had to put my dog down.

00:34:54.376 --> 00:34:57.335
I was devastated in the moment we put her down.

00:34:57.335 --> 00:35:00.407
I left and then I just okay, well, I had to go get ready for my trip.

00:35:00.407 --> 00:35:02.733
I have to sell my house and I had to go get ready for this other trip.

00:35:02.733 --> 00:35:09.273
And then it was just like, okay, well, that event happened in that three-hour window and then I never got really sad about it again.

00:35:10.025 --> 00:35:16.059
So for me it was the exact opposite of what you experienced.

00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:19.539
You didn't know how to handle it.

00:35:19.539 --> 00:35:21.010
Well, I didn't know how to handle it either.

00:35:21.010 --> 00:35:21.833
I just blocked it away.

00:35:21.833 --> 00:35:47.385
That's how I handled it and never processed it and and I've spoken about it in therapy not anything that I've really delved into and like we spoke about it probably for an hour session, and one of the things that she told me, cause I felt again going back to what is our timeline, for how long we're supposed to feel sad, how, when do we get over that?

00:35:47.385 --> 00:35:48.588
Do we ever get over that?

00:35:48.588 --> 00:35:53.786
I was like I feel like I kind of got over that really fast and that doesn't feel right.

00:35:54.708 --> 00:36:11.152
And I remember her distinctly because I also look at our, our mother, who the loss of a child is devastating, but it took her many years to be able to get to a point where she was okay talking about marine and I asked her about that.

00:36:11.152 --> 00:36:14.958
I'm like I feel like that exact, I had this blip in my life.

00:36:14.958 --> 00:36:16.731
It was really sad and it was tragic.

00:36:16.731 --> 00:36:20.806
We're missing a piece of our family, but then I just moved right on.

00:36:21.086 --> 00:36:28.130
And then the opposite side of that is, for years, other people are processing it and holding onto it and dealing with it.

00:36:28.130 --> 00:36:34.255
And I don't remember exactly what she said to me, but it was something along the lines of we do that to ourselves.

00:36:34.255 --> 00:36:47.237
So for me it was like, okay, well, I'm not, maybe I didn't process it enough and maybe I didn't give it the the amount of time that it needed or the amount of effort or work that it needed to process that through.

00:36:47.237 --> 00:36:52.876
But then I felt a little bit relieved because I didn't want to keep myself in that.

00:36:52.876 --> 00:36:56.635
So now when I talk about it, people are devastated.

00:36:56.635 --> 00:37:05.315
I tell them the story and I talk about it just like I'm talking right now, very like nonchalant, like yeah, it happened in my life.

00:37:05.315 --> 00:37:08.833
And other people are like, oh, my God, that's such a big deal.

00:37:08.833 --> 00:37:09.876
I'm so sad for you.

00:37:09.876 --> 00:37:12.072
I mean, have I had people start tearing up on me?

00:37:12.375 --> 00:37:13.519
That's a big deal.

00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:14.525
It's a terrible situation.

00:37:15.568 --> 00:37:17.434
And for me I'm just like oh yeah, it just happened.

00:37:19.085 --> 00:37:20.427
So so, laura, I would.

00:37:20.427 --> 00:37:29.458
I would ask this question just based on listening to him talk, not that I'm trying to like, hey, let's get naked, come on, we're going to therapize you.

00:37:29.458 --> 00:37:30.701
You're not moving anywhere.

00:37:30.701 --> 00:37:34.351
Laura, get him, that's kind of everyone at home listening.

00:37:34.391 --> 00:37:35.594
That's what this feels like.

00:37:35.614 --> 00:37:36.797
That's not what this was.

00:37:36.797 --> 00:37:56.329
No-transcript, I wasn't really processing it.

00:37:56.329 --> 00:38:02.309
I was just not processing it in the same way that you running and just piling stuff on top of.

00:38:02.309 --> 00:38:15.893
But then what does that look like, laura, as far as just unresolved or unprocessed grief Because part of what I said at the beginning, where it just kind of like seeps into your entire life if you don't deal with that, what does that look?

00:38:15.954 --> 00:38:16.153
like.

00:38:16.153 --> 00:38:36.704
It can look like a lot of different things, but I think, whether it's, you know, a year from then, or whether it's 30 years from then, and grief keeps knocking, yeah, and it gets louder and louder and louder, until eventually something breaks and it sounds like for you the drinking.

00:38:36.704 --> 00:38:40.204
Somehow there came a point when you decided you had to stop that.

00:38:40.255 --> 00:38:47.246
I was literally destroying my entire life with alcohol just because I was literally hiding from the knock.

00:38:47.246 --> 00:38:50.762
I didn't want to answer the door, and so it was just just put more alcohol on it.

00:38:50.762 --> 00:38:59.925
It doesn't matter what time of day you're drinking, or how much you're drinking, or the fact that you're not paying attention to any of your family, the fact that you're doing things that are out of character for who you are, it doesn't matter.

00:38:59.925 --> 00:39:03.579
We're just going to keep going down that road until I just literally could not do that anymore.

00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:17.114
Yeah, so there comes a point when you can't do it anymore, when you can't pretend you're not hearing the knock, and that point obviously looks different for everybody and that point comes at different times for people.

00:39:17.114 --> 00:39:38.340
But the grief in my experience with myself and others it demands to be seen and it will patiently or not so patiently wait for a while, but sooner or later it's going to show up in some way.

00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:39.884
How do you?

00:39:39.923 --> 00:39:41.007
invite it to the table with.

00:39:41.007 --> 00:39:45.784
You Say, for example, just because you're sitting here and we're picking on you.

00:39:45.784 --> 00:39:49.280
Tony Say, for example he says I feel like I've never dealt with that.

00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:50.563
I feel like I ran and ran and ran.

00:39:50.563 --> 00:39:51.585
I had one therapy session.

00:39:51.585 --> 00:39:52.315
I feel like I'm good.

00:39:52.315 --> 00:39:53.840
Put it back up on the shelf, whatever.

00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.005
There's a lot that goes into what you just said.

00:39:56.005 --> 00:39:57.257
I don't know if you realize that or not.

00:39:57.257 --> 00:40:00.106
With I felt relieved because she wasn't here anymore.

00:40:00.106 --> 00:40:10.246
I felt the exact same way that made me suffering anymore For someone that went on for a lifelong.

00:40:10.246 --> 00:40:17.335
My sister was, our sister was with someone who was I don't even know how do you describe Undesirable, undesirable.

00:40:17.715 --> 00:40:19.463
By most of the population.

00:40:19.735 --> 00:40:20.699
I mean just heinous.

00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:31.719
Just a man that was just had her doing things that we don't think were her choice, but again she was stuck and and then I had all of these other feelings of not being able to save her.

00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:36.077
You know, because when she was early on with him, I'm like, come live with me, I'll take care of finances.

00:40:36.077 --> 00:40:48.396
I just I literally was come on, I, I will, I will save you, and then that obviously is my you know shit to deal with as well, with it's not your job to save other people and like all of the things.

00:40:48.456 --> 00:40:56.288
But the feeling of relief, the feeling of any of the feelings that you feel, that's obviously more than just a one-hour therapy session, and I think you know that.

00:40:56.288 --> 00:41:01.365
I mean, this isn't like a surprise where we're surprising Tony with like hey, we're going to give you some free therapy to deal with this.

00:41:01.365 --> 00:41:20.128
But if grief does keep knocking and does keep knocking, if you're at a point where you realize, okay, okay, I have this grief, not just for you, just for the listeners how do you invite that to the table and say, okay, I'm ready to start having a relationship with you, because I do think that grief is that big of a deal.

00:41:20.128 --> 00:41:29.605
You know where you do need to say okay, how am I going to process this, but how do you, how would you suggest to people to be able to start that or to be able to kind of advance their journey?

00:41:29.684 --> 00:41:35.045
as it relates to that, yeah, I think part of it is being really intentional and purposeful with it.

00:41:35.045 --> 00:41:37.784
Hence the grief on purpose name.

00:41:38.414 --> 00:41:51.456
But because, as, as Tony, you were saying, like you can, it's so easy You're not the only one by any means Like we've all.

00:41:51.456 --> 00:42:06.438
It's so easy to be, to get busy with our lives and be like but I have, I already have this thing planned and I have to do this, and then I have to do like that's how we live a lot of the time, and so, even if we do want to feel our grief in that, it's easy to not, um.

00:42:06.438 --> 00:42:19.987
So I think, just being really, I think it can be very important to be intentional and purposeful about it and create space for that grief to be.

00:42:19.987 --> 00:42:46.423
That can look like a lot of different things, but maybe most simply, just when we're feeling ready to, or interested in, or curious about our grief, just to give ourselves a couple minutes just to sit with that question of where is my grief, how is my grief, what is my grief, and start to get curious about it.

00:42:46.443 --> 00:42:46.664
I love that.

00:42:46.664 --> 00:42:48.170
I love that and start to get curious about it.

00:42:48.190 --> 00:42:48.731
I love that.

00:42:48.731 --> 00:42:49.675
I love that.

00:42:49.675 --> 00:42:59.922
It's so funny to me because the work that I do, not only with this podcast but with other things, it's all the gross stuff, it's all the hard stuff, it's all the shit that it's like no, thank you.

00:42:59.922 --> 00:43:02.300
And I totally get that.

00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:18.202
But I will say that as I've gone in life and in the last eight years for me, I am a much better person, I am a much happier person, I am a much all the things, because I've been willing to get curious and say, okay, what does grief look like in my life?

00:43:18.202 --> 00:43:23.057
For not only the loss of people that were close to me, but other things as well.

00:43:23.057 --> 00:43:32.583
Because I think grief is like rides in its own satchel and you know, you just keep adding stuff to it and, like I said, I think you do pull it behind you like a wrecking ball.

00:43:33.005 --> 00:43:55.427
Yeah, and there really is beauty in grief, Like if you haven't in my experience, if you haven't experienced the depths of all the emotion that's entailed in grief, then it's really hard to experience the other side of that coin.

00:43:55.427 --> 00:44:07.793
If you haven't been in the deepest, hardest, heaviest, darkest place, then you can't experience the lightest, highest, most joyful place.

00:44:07.994 --> 00:44:24.579
Yeah, and I agree with that a thousand percent, because I think when you numb, when you numb and you kind of leave your emotions at like a flat line because you're not willing to deal with the things that are nasty and gross and low and all of that, you don't get the highs either.

00:44:24.579 --> 00:44:29.467
Yeah, and the highs to me are outstanding.

00:44:29.467 --> 00:44:32.318
Yeah mean you can't even put words to how great you can actually feel.

00:44:32.318 --> 00:44:40.706
So I was talking to somebody recently about what that looked like me getting sober and doing all of this work and kind of being willing to use my emotions as a tool.

00:44:40.706 --> 00:44:48.217
I felt like I was good before and I look back and it's like maybe I was a four out of a scale of one to 10.

00:44:48.677 --> 00:44:57.523
That's literally how big of a deal I feel like it is now that I'm willing to feel the emotions and feel them as they come up, and it's not at convenient times always.

00:44:57.523 --> 00:45:30.635
You know I'm coming into today with I'm already raw from other things and that's just the universe's way of like go ahead and cry on your own podcast, it's going to be fine, but you know the universe will just tell you when it's time to be able to do that and the knock and however loud that gets, and when you're ready to sit down and say, okay, come out to play, I'll sit with you, no matter how bad that hurts, because that's a small percentage of time as you process that to really open your life up to get the highest highs.

00:45:30.635 --> 00:45:30.876
Yeah.

00:45:31.177 --> 00:45:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:47.360
And there you know, as, as all the years pass by, for me, um, as we've already said multiple times today, there's the expectation that I'm ever going to be done with grief or that it's ever going to be over.

00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:48.842
Just is not true.

00:45:48.842 --> 00:45:50.925
This is going to be a part of my life forever.

00:45:50.925 --> 00:46:34.936
But and also I've been noticing now that some more time has passed, like the way that my grief has shifted and the way that my relationships with the people who I've died have first of all continued on in different form and shifted, and that's a really cool, interesting piece of it that is sort of just starting to make its appearance to me, because I had to, of course, go through, I had to process the initial shock and hurt and sadness and everything associated with the deaths themselves to get to this place.

00:46:34.936 --> 00:46:40.697
I think Right, but now I feel I can feel their, their, I can feel a connection with them.

00:46:40.697 --> 00:46:42.862
Yeah, I can feel it more at different times.

00:46:42.862 --> 00:46:50.807
I feel like I still have an ongoing relationship with them and there's something really cool about that.

00:46:51.014 --> 00:46:53.137
I think you're absolutely right, Tony.

00:46:53.137 --> 00:46:53.981
Do you understand that?

00:46:53.981 --> 00:46:55.721
Do you feel like you have a connection with Maureen?

00:46:55.721 --> 00:46:56.704
Not at all.

00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:11.420
I don't feel like I have a connection with much of anything, and I don't know if that's because I'm not open up to things like that, or if it's because I've never explored it, or if Because you have a dump truck full of grief basically riding around behind you.

00:47:11.420 --> 00:47:14.818
It's interesting because you're talking about, like the knocks and things like that.

00:47:14.818 --> 00:47:16.663
I'm like I don't experience that.

00:47:16.663 --> 00:47:26.835
So if I don't have a knock and I don't have the whatever, like this half back is blocked, it's just pushed back and pushed back and maybe not.

00:47:26.976 --> 00:47:27.378
I don't know.

00:47:27.378 --> 00:47:32.166
That's the hard part is like I don't know enough about that to to really understand that.

00:47:32.166 --> 00:47:42.179
But yeah, like when you're always talking about huh, maureen did that today or, maureen, I don't experience those things or I'm not paying attention right.

00:47:42.940 --> 00:47:55.181
Well, I think also, like if you just kind of open that door when you get to the point where you're ready, of saying I, I'm ready to process this and I'm going to sit and get quiet and get curious about some of the things, and how did that make me feel?

00:47:55.181 --> 00:48:10.125
And you know, either taking quiet time, going for a hike, journaling, like whatever it looks like, honor your body for whatever it will tell you once you kind of say, okay, invite grief to the table and then just go with whatever it says to do.

00:48:10.125 --> 00:48:21.222
But I feel like the connection that I have with her is definitely more because I was willing to kind of sit in the muck and I agree with you, I think that it's super special because she does.

00:48:21.222 --> 00:48:33.119
She shows up for me in the most unusual ways and sometimes just when I need her, and sometimes you know, yeah, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing, it makes me feel like ways, and sometimes just when I need her, and sometimes you know, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing, it makes me feel like I have a secret.

00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.344
Yeah, that's so special.

00:48:34.344 --> 00:49:06.304
Yeah, you know, it's giving me full body chills, because she was important to us, you know, and for me I didn't talk to her for the last year and a half before she passed because I drank a lot and she wouldn't listen to her for the last year and a half before she passed because I drank a lot and she wouldn't listen to me about that other girl that she was married to and she was so twisted up with that guy and it was like I will do whatever I need to do to get you away from him and this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

00:49:06.394 --> 00:49:17.224
And it was like you don't have to do this and she just, god damnmit, she wouldn't listen, which none of us would If I came to you, laura, and said you've got to stop doing whatever it is.

00:49:17.224 --> 00:49:25.619
But you're like no, this is my life, I'm not going to do that, it's not my job to run yours, but I was so cocky and so just let me save you.

00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:27.280
I didn't realize it then.

00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:28.740
I was just trying to be helpful.

00:49:28.740 --> 00:49:42.731
So I had too much to drink and I told her off and then I didn't talk to her for a year and a half and she died and it was like the guilt of that and the weight of that, and I tell the girls that all the time, because they fight my daughters.

00:49:42.731 --> 00:49:45.052
I tell them don't leave it like that.

00:49:45.052 --> 00:49:56.744
It's fine if you don't want to talk, take space if you guys, you know, don't want to, but don't leave it on bad terms, because I'd give anything to be able to apologize to her In person.

00:49:56.744 --> 00:50:11.514
I apologize to her spirit all the time Because I just and she knows she's always known, you know, her and I were 18 months apart and I just she was always a better human being than I ever was, you know, which is awesome.

00:50:11.795 --> 00:50:23.146
So, no, I, tony, I encourage you, I encourage any of our listeners, to just get to a point where you're ready to explore that because you say I don't have that, I don't feel that, I don't hear the knock.

00:50:23.916 --> 00:50:27.382
The knock is happening, the universe is knocking.

00:50:27.663 --> 00:51:09.324
You don't have to listen, but it's there, right, because in different ways, you know, I think a big part of you and your journey of things is just also being quiet enough and being willing enough to allow those things to come in, which is a feat in and of itself, because it's not pretty work, it's stuff that is gross and nasty, but if you knew that you could work through that and you could get to the other side of that and your life is amazing and you feel these incredible highs and you understand what grief is and what that looks like, and then also being able to help other people, because, laura, you have to have so many people in your life that are like, say more, tell me, because it's just a topic that no one ever talks about.

00:51:09.414 --> 00:51:22.262
So the fact that you are willing to talk about it, the fact that that is what drives you, the fact that that is what your life's purpose is, and that you're willing to talk about all the gross things that come out because of that, I mean it's impressive to me.

00:51:22.262 --> 00:51:23.306
Well, thank you.

00:51:23.956 --> 00:51:25.242
Sometimes I feel like I'm the downer.

00:51:25.242 --> 00:51:27.443
Let's talk about death.

00:51:29.346 --> 00:51:35.012
You know, I have found my match in that because I swear to God, like for me, I want to always talk about deep things.

00:51:35.012 --> 00:51:53.050
You know, like I have a podcast where I'm like let's talk about the grossest shit you can come up with and like the things that are shameful and the things that are fears, and you know, all of these low vibe, gross things that everybody has Right but nobody wants to talk about.

00:51:53.050 --> 00:51:55.574
We want to talk about the lipstick and the pretty and the Instagram and the filters, like all of that shit, and I'm like that's not real life.

00:51:55.574 --> 00:51:56.467
So I feel like I'm the boner killer all the time.

00:51:56.467 --> 00:51:58.914
But I've met my match in law because she's like, hey, what do you do for a living?

00:51:58.914 --> 00:52:00.717
Help people with grief.

00:52:00.717 --> 00:52:06.266
You're super comfortable with it in a way that to me, I think, is makes it approachable you.

00:52:06.606 --> 00:52:09.570
My middle daughter always says she goes 10 out of 10 people die.

00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:12.282
I don't know why everyone's so weird about it, and I don't either.

00:52:12.282 --> 00:52:21.980
I think we should normalize the conversation around death in all of its forms Death where it's tragic, death where it's suicide, death where it's drug overdoses.

00:52:21.980 --> 00:52:26.639
Those are all really horrible, nasty things, but that's life.

00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:39.967
We all deal with that, and and if no one knows how to process that and it's just keep pushing it down or pushing it back and keep going, and keep going, and keep going, we're robbing ourselves of being able to live our life to the fullest expression that we can.

00:52:39.967 --> 00:52:44.182
And so, once you know that, doesn't that make you want to go?

00:52:44.603 --> 00:52:54.235
okay, let me go see what that is about no, no and so no, it's good for you to, for you to give that input of saying like, no, I'm still not interested in what you guys are peddling here.

00:52:54.235 --> 00:52:55.762
I'm totally interested in that.

00:52:55.782 --> 00:52:56.144
I love it.

00:52:56.144 --> 00:53:05.338
But it's interesting because, as you're talking, I'm sitting here thinking about when you're looking like, yes, look on the other side, it's going to be so much more fantastic and whatever.

00:53:05.338 --> 00:53:18.597
I am currently living a hundred different situations where I'm exploring why I'm doing something, the way or I allow people to treat me a certain way and just be used as a doormat or whatever.

00:53:18.597 --> 00:53:37.818
But I think, especially when it comes to the grief for me and just every so many areas of my life, the unknown is really fucking scary and it doesn't matter that, logically, I understand, I'm gonna feel better if I can stand up for myself to this one person and be like don't fucking talk to me.

00:53:37.818 --> 00:53:48.260
Like that it's gonna feel much better because either they're going to respect that or they're not, and they're not going to be in my life and you're better off either way exactly logically, that all makes sense.

00:53:54.235 --> 00:53:55.117
It does not happen like that.

00:53:55.117 --> 00:53:57.019
Of course, it's easier to say, yes, I need to deal with my grief and whatever.

00:53:57.019 --> 00:54:08.458
Sometimes the fear of changing how you are and what you've been living is enough to hold you back, and I'm exploring that in so many facets of my life that, yes, logically, I would love to change this.

00:54:08.458 --> 00:54:09.795
I don't want to be like this anymore.

00:54:09.795 --> 00:54:25.137
I feel the strong being inside that I used to have in certain situations and and not that it it was I'm overpowering people and I'm trying to be this bully or whatever, but just like my capabilities.

00:54:25.137 --> 00:54:33.742
But all of that fear and all of that childhood trauma and all of the I don't know why I do this oh wait, now I know I do this.

00:54:33.742 --> 00:54:35.365
Let's figure that out.

00:54:35.365 --> 00:54:41.847
Sometimes that fear is much greater and much more powerful than the desire and the will to change.

00:54:43.114 --> 00:54:44.416
Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:44.416 --> 00:54:54.639
That's true for a lot of people and that you know what we're talking about the light and stuff that is possible, but also it takes.

00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.626
It can take a whole lot to get there.

00:54:57.626 --> 00:55:07.626
It can be really hard and really painful and the walking down that dark, unknown path, the fear of that, can absolutely be enough to.

00:55:07.626 --> 00:55:08.989
I'm not going down there.

00:55:08.989 --> 00:55:10.010
Yeah, it's debilitating.

00:55:10.396 --> 00:55:17.445
Well, and especially, I think, for Tony, because he's at this place where I hope you don't mind that I share this, but just being willing to.

00:55:17.445 --> 00:55:19.300
I love the eyes that he makes at me.

00:55:19.375 --> 00:55:22.362
He's like well, you're already sharing it so what the fuck am I supposed to do to stop you?

00:55:22.362 --> 00:55:26.762
But just being willing to even feel any of the feelings?

00:55:26.762 --> 00:55:37.784
So for me, for Brennan, for you, who just pushed down emotions our entire life and literally just had a joke up until late 30s of like I'm dead inside, that's just who I am and it just was.

00:55:37.784 --> 00:55:39.621
I mean it's for you, for him, for me.

00:55:39.621 --> 00:55:51.981
But even having him come down here and be on the podcast and having him talk about some of the stuff that he is and the things that have opened up for him, it that he is and the things that have opened up for him, it's like, oh shit.

00:55:52.001 --> 00:55:54.835
Like every time I hear either of you guys, I'm so, I'm so proud and I'm so impressed because you do it on your own time.

00:55:54.835 --> 00:55:56.802
That's not, that's not for me to pick.

00:55:56.802 --> 00:55:58.389
I deal with my own shit on my own time.

00:55:58.389 --> 00:56:05.333
But I'm impressed because it is scary work and the fear of the unknown is can be debilitating.

00:56:05.333 --> 00:56:13.032
I just happen to be in this place in my life where I'm like I I'm not going to live in fear, that's but, but I did for so long of just I don't.

00:56:13.032 --> 00:56:17.574
That looks messy, and so we're just going to go this other direction, no matter what that other direction looks like.

00:56:17.574 --> 00:56:25.840
So to be able to say I'm not going to let that run things and I'm going to go into it God, it's scary, it's scary.

00:56:26.240 --> 00:56:27.342
But it's much less scary.

00:56:27.342 --> 00:56:34.927
I think and I think you and I have talked about this the support system that we have at the office right now is grand.

00:56:35.307 --> 00:56:37.068
It's grand, it's grand.

00:56:37.528 --> 00:56:40.010
I have never, because you don't expect that at work.

00:56:40.150 --> 00:56:40.371
Yeah.

00:56:41.052 --> 00:56:42.353
And I've never really had that.

00:56:42.353 --> 00:56:48.788
So I have.

00:56:48.788 --> 00:56:49.855
I can talk to anybody about anything.

00:56:50.275 --> 00:56:52.969
I don't want to say, without judgment, but for the most part, without judging you, cause I'll go talk to them right now.

00:56:52.989 --> 00:56:55.577
It's funny because it's it's like the joking judgment.

00:56:55.619 --> 00:56:56.922
It's not like oh, my God.

00:56:57.523 --> 00:57:00.436
But understanding that each one of us is in a different path.

00:57:00.436 --> 00:57:02.684
Each one of us brings different things to the table.

00:57:02.684 --> 00:57:03.695
We can learn from each other.

00:57:03.695 --> 00:57:05.599
Some of us are twinning, some of us are not.

00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:16.724
But I also think to that point when you're scared shitless to try to break beyond something, it makes a difference of who you have around you.

00:57:16.724 --> 00:57:22.766
So for me, you all are my friends and the people I spend the most time with.

00:57:22.766 --> 00:57:28.079
So being able to say like, hey, this is what's going on, I'm like, oh yeah, I've experienced that too.

00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:32.224
If for nothing else, then I feel heard.

00:57:32.224 --> 00:57:35.250
Somebody else understands what I'm going through, I'm not alone.

00:57:40.635 --> 00:57:55.760
The other part of that is my therapist, the way that she speaks to me and sometimes says first of all, I want to thank you for being willing to share that, because there are times in therapy I feel comfortable enough to tell her anything and everything.

00:57:55.880 --> 00:58:01.201
There are times that I might tell her later than I should have or would have, but it does.

00:58:01.201 --> 00:58:09.322
It takes an act of strength and power to be able to be that vulnerable, because it's a lot, and there's a lot even.

00:58:09.322 --> 00:58:16.016
You know some of the decisions that I've made recently, and I've spoken to her about that, sure, and I'm like I'm, I'm so ashamed.

00:58:16.016 --> 00:58:16.838
I don't feel guilty.

00:58:16.838 --> 00:58:50.755
I feel ashamed because I can see this stuff and I'm just barging right in like my eyes wide open and but being able to have somebody who says I want you to know that I see somebody who's strong and honest and gives himself to others and helps others and does all way, in addition to having the other support of, yeah, it's okay.

00:58:50.755 --> 00:58:52.440
Yes, this is scary.

00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.865
It's a lot less scary when you have good people around.

00:58:54.885 --> 00:59:00.717
Yeah well, and we all just want to be heard and seen, yeah, you know, in any of the stuff that we're dealing with, and that's extremely important.

00:59:00.717 --> 00:59:05.668
So, yeah, well, thank you guys both for coming today.

00:59:05.668 --> 00:59:28.856
We're running out of time, but yeah, this has been a really important conversation and we will definitely continue this in the future because I think normalizing death and grief and processing emotions and what all of that looks like is extremely important, because you're not unique, tony, in the way that you were raised with not processing emotions and why does it feel so?

00:59:28.856 --> 00:59:32.164
You have to feel so brave to be vulnerable and it does.

00:59:32.164 --> 00:59:38.414
I don't disagree with you like I have to boss up every time I come, sit on this couch and say, oh shit, what am I going to say today?

00:59:38.414 --> 00:59:40.902
Because it is just, it's so incredibly vulnerable.

00:59:40.902 --> 00:59:52.269
But I I have to believe that people hearing that, people understanding what other people's journeys are, will help them and maybe it sparks something, maybe it it's an idea of like, oh, I didn't think about doing that, or oh, that's a resource.

00:59:52.916 --> 00:59:59.664
Who knew that there were lovely ladies like Laura out here, who literally deals with grief, specializing in that?

00:59:59.664 --> 01:00:05.101
That's powerful and grief on purpose right, that's where you can find Laura's grief on purpose.

01:00:05.101 --> 01:00:06.286
That's huge.

01:00:06.286 --> 01:00:10.295
Being intentional about processing that instead of just letting that happen to you.

01:00:10.295 --> 01:00:19.242
It very much goes into the you know you're happening to life not it's happening to you, but be intentional about what you're willing to to deal with for yourself.

01:00:19.242 --> 01:00:23.603
So for that, thank you guys, both for coming on and being vulnerable.

01:00:23.603 --> 01:00:26.632
Um, that's our time for today.

01:00:26.632 --> 01:00:28.976
If you have questions or suggestions, send us an email.

01:00:28.976 --> 01:00:38.269
Our email address is ladies at letsgetnakedpodcastcom, and then do all the things to support the pod Follow, share, rate and review and we'll catch you next time.

01:00:38.269 --> 01:00:46.487
That's a wrap.

01:00:46.487 --> 01:00:48.108
I'd love to help you get vulnerable.

01:00:48.108 --> 01:00:52.007
Let's get naked.